Is Monmouthshire part of Wales?
- Thread starter RubberBuccaneer
- Start date
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
Idaho said:
Tedious of you to complain about being labelled a 'British Unionist/Nationalist', then, I'd have thought....
Idaho
continuity character
Dr. Christmas said:
We've already established that I'm a tedious character doc - time to move on.
My objection to being called a British Nationalist is that it's a pathetically lazy slur. There are far more insightful and damning accusations you could throw if you took the time.
bendeus said:
out of curosity, when did the linguistic border changed? where was it situated?
bendeus
Bellend Tagline Generator
guinnessdrinker said:
Have a look at this and this
from which this is a quote:
On the grounds of history, ethnology, and language, it is necessary to include likewise certain western parishes in Shropshire, Herefordshire, and Gloucestershire as forming part of the real Wales, that is to say, of Wales as we are about to define the term. It would seem, in fact, that the only true and comprehensive definition of Wales is as follows: Wales is that territory north of the Bristol Channel which, since the subjection of South Britain by the English, has continuously been peopled by the descendants of its original pre-Germanic inhabitants. This includes the thirteen whole counties, with certain parishes in the shires of Salop, Hereford, and Gloucester; and in some places the boundary passes east of Offa's Dyke, the limit made by the victorious King of the Mercians in 779.
I will try and find a timeline for it but am a bit busy at present
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
Idaho said:
As are your continual evidence-free assertions that welsh nationalists are all 'middle class', complaining about 'repression', that Wales is a region' etc etc, ones which you continually refuse to back up or withdraw.
Double standards anyone?
bendeus said:
I have had a brief look at the links and they look rather interesting. I 'll definitely have a deeper and longer look soon. thanks.
Idaho
continuity character
Dr. Christmas said:
I would have to have said that a number of times for it to be 'continual'. As for evidence free - you and Ern are professional middle class Welsh nationalists; that's evidence. As for the other stuff, best to argue the points in situ doc - can get a bit dull dragging up the same arguements out of context.
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
Idaho said:
1. You have.
2. Hardly. Ern is a self identified communist and I no longer live in Wales, nor am I presently active in its political context. Two sympathisers, and no members out of a party membership of roughly ten thousand is pretty pathetic if that's what you're claiming as evidence.
3. This is the first thread where I've bothered to actually seriously challenge your mediocre Daily Mail prejudices on the subject- I now remember why I didn't bother on all the other occasions.
I could ask why Welsh nationalism bothers you so much that you spend a goodly proportion of your time on urban in this forum, on this or related subjects. We all understand you had a crap time when you were living in Wales but loads of us didn't and would rather spend our time in this forum talking about positive and relevant issues. Get over it eh?
Well for a start we could all try to agree on some basic common frames of reference that have been part of intelligent discussions on Wales' status for quite some time:
1) Wales = Nation (irrespective of whether it has a seat on the UN)
2) Bigotry = BAD (whether anti-Welsh or anti-English)
3) The likelihood of Welsh speaking people waking up tomorrow and deciding they'll go with the flow and stop speaking Welsh is precisely nil.
And then move on from there. How does that sound?
1) Wales = Nation (irrespective of whether it has a seat on the UN)
2) Bigotry = BAD (whether anti-Welsh or anti-English)
3) The likelihood of Welsh speaking people waking up tomorrow and deciding they'll go with the flow and stop speaking Welsh is precisely nil.
And then move on from there. How does that sound?
Idaho
continuity character
Dr. Christmas said:
I came on to this forum because Ernest invited me! Honest!
I've had some excellent times in Wales as it goes. Welsh nationalism per se doesn't bother me, in fact I'm all for it. Just because I challenge a handful of fairly narrow views on the subject doesn't mean that I hold the diametrically opposed view.
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
Idaho said:
I'm not opposed to you debating or indeed even spending 100% of your time on here, at all, if you want to. Your problem is that you seem to perceive what you term 'narrow' views on the subject= the mainstream opinion in Welsh nationalism, which it isn't.
Idaho said:
It's the most interesting feature for you, but in this context the debate is over.
It's moved on. The political debate has moved on for everybody: Plaid, Labour, Liberal or Tory.
The question now starts from the premise that Wales is a nation, and asks how best to reflect that politically given Wales' economic and cultural position.
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
meurig said:
Hear, hear.
Morgan said:
Idaho said:
You're seriously saying that trying to engage with the first question is unremittingly dull? Attempting to work out how to secure the economic, political and cultural future of three million people is dull?
Duller than perpetuating an argument about whether Wales is a region or a nation that ended 40 years ago?
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
meurig said:
What he said.
If you want to know 'what constitutes a nation', Idaho, I don't think this is the thread to do it...try starting another one in one of the politics forums, or philosophy/theory.
Mind you IIRC the subject of nationhood was done to death in the General Forum in the spring, in relation to Cornwall, the UK, and Walter Mitty's fridge. All these threads (save for the Walter Mitty one) ended with five pages of TeeJay's ramblings. Indeed for a couple of days the general forum was so dominated by fractious and not so serious nation threads, that many regulars were reduced to chewing the carpet with boredom whilst others threatened physical violence against the woebegone poster who next started a 'nation' thread.
