Is Monmouthshire part of Wales?
- Thread starter RubberBuccaneer
- Start date
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
kea said:is this true?
(and what did they do to reach peace terms in 95?!)
I'm not absolutely sure it's true, though i do seem to remember reading something like that at the time. I believe an embarrassing ceremony involving chain wearing council worthies and the ninth under secretary at Germany's welsh legation ensued...
Berwick-on-Tweed, the other 'contested' border area in the yookay, remained technically at war with Russia over the Crimea until pretty recently, too. I don't think even wargaming enthusiasts had envisaged a scenario where the Northumberland Light Infantry despeately shelled advacing tsarist hordes on the opposite bank of the River Tweed, from the feared redoubt of berwick castle.
bendeus said:
a) Because it is one of the oldest surviving languages in Eurpope and one of the last viable Celtic tongues. This surely gives it some historic credibility - that may so but it is hardly a reason, in my opinion, to force it to remain alive. - The determination to see Welsh remain in use has more to do with romantic historicism than everyday practicality. Nothing wrong with romantic historicism per se, but let us recognise the real reason.
b) Can you give me one reason why it wouldn't - Because whatever language is spoken in that part of this island now refered to as Wales would be made up of so many diverse tongues from literally around the world. I find that appealing, I'm not saying you have to too!
c) No, English won't last forever, but it will take out quite a few tongues in its rampage across the globe before it reaches its zenith. In what context do you feel that this is ok? - You see, the very fact that you describe English as 'rampaging across the globe' may reveal to the reader what you really think of that language and the English.It is not the fault of English that Welsh is rarely spoken. Nor is it the fault of ordinary English people. Prejudiced antipathy towards the english or Englishness will do your cause no favours whatsoever. Leave it out, i suggest.
d) Have I suggested 'penalising' anyone?- that is the unwritten and clear impication of your position and argument. However, I'm glad to learn that you're not suggesting that?
e) Yes. Can you answer my point? - what was your point exactly? It was a bit muddled, you seemed to be appointing yourself as a spokes-person for all welsh people. Have you been elected to such a post?
f) Right. You view it in the context of class war, I in the context of invasion and a continued legacy of conquest and colonisation. Can you prove my point to be invalid? - what is the difference in how we view it then? Is there any difference? Again your point/s is/are muddled. All the Welsh are shafted because of something you choose to call English Economics! Get real!
g) You have no interest in England subsuming Wales yet you exhort a laissez faire attitude towards what is actually happening here. Your 'hands off' attitude means the same to me as one which actively seeks the diminishment of Wales as an entity, as both will ultimately have the same effect. Don't call me or my attitudes silly and don't assume to know what I feel about a given subject. Let's stay polite. - Wrong. I express my doubt at the idea that it is absolutely imperative to ensure that minority languages are kept artifically alive, that is all.
h) You haven't answered my question - I have, but I'll do it again if you want. No, I would not resist Americanisation, but I think that we probably donot agree as to what it is exactly.
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
fanta said:
Er, Welsh isn't kept 'artificially alive' which seems to be the basis of your misconception about the language.
400,000 people speak Welsh which is roughly 20% of the population. In the North and in the West it's the primary community language used on a daily basis.
Plus, it's an emotional subject. If people feel their language to be under threat, then also in some way they feel themselves and their communities to be under threat. Reasoned argument can go out of the window in those circumstances.
Perhaps you may be able to explain to us how a desire to speak your mother tongue in your own community is an example of 'small mindedness' or 'anti-Englishness'.
Dr. Christmas said:
400,000 out of an island population of 60 million! There are perhaps more Urdu/Hindi speakers!
I agree with you about how reasoned argument can go out of the window sometimes though!
As for your last sentence, I'm not saying that a desire to speak your mother tongue in your own community is an example of 'small mindedness' or 'anti-Englishness'. I'm saying it would be better if people chose to learn, speak and venerate Welsh without the associated idiotic antipathy towards English speakers and Englishness.
Idaho
continuity character
Dr. Christmas said:
That's the heart of the matter. Of course it's not anti-english. However it is you that perceives it so. You speak of english 'rampaging' and welsh speakers needing 'protection'. It's seige mentality. And one that sees english people and the language they speak as the enemy.
I hope that welsh finds a way to survive as a language. I also has sympathy for people who are finding it increasingly difficult to operate in their mother tongue. However it's a big bad world out there.
The Romans ruled most of Europe 2000 years ago and now no-one speaks Latin other than historians. Do you seriously believe Welsh can survive?
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
Idaho said:
1. What laughable bollocks. You'll have to refresh my memory of where I've said that English is 'rampaging' in Wales or where I've demanded 'protection' for Welsh speaking communities. otherwise I'll have to assume that once again this speaks more about your own generalising prejudice rather than anything I've said on the subject.
2. "However it's a big bad world out there". A tad patronising, no? Some Welsh speakers (those on the fringes of Cymuned for example) do have obejctionable and prejudiced views of English speakers. Whislt of course I would condemn such attitudes, perhaps people should reflect sometimes on their own attitudes towards minority languages- patronising dismissals like this will entrench divisions rather than repair them.
3. I'm not quite clear as to the relevance of your Roman example, but yes, I do believe welsh will survive. Comfortable. if it was going to die, it would have done so by now, before the 1967 Welsh Language Act- before that Welsh wasn't recognised as an official language at all.
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
fanta said:
1. D'oh! There's 50,000 Gaelic speakers in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland but they don't give much thought to Welsh, and vice-versa. Welsh is one of the national languages of Wales. We're not talking about the UK.
2. The 'idiotic antipathy' you mention doesn't come from nowhere. Much of it is wrong, but then, as you've conceded, rational argument can go out the window when such an emotive issue is being debated. As I mentioned to idaho, it's a two way thing: for example a Surrey right winger sneering at the language and those who speak it understandably won't go down very well in certain Welsh speaking parts of the country.
RubberBuccaneer
Hedd Wyn
Thanks Dr C I knew you'd know that
They didn't tell me , I just drove thro' it. 
They didn't tell me , I just drove thro' it. waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
Why does nearly every thread have to descend into some kind of childish slanging match? Everyone on here appears to try and show off their intellect and i have no doubt that many of the posters are actually quite intellegent - so why then does everything have to degenerate into a pointless, boring and immature argument?
can't you just argue with each other via your private messages so that you don't bore everybody else that actually wants to read and review messages related to the original topic.
i am so bored of the arguments.
can't you just argue with each other via your private messages so that you don't bore everybody else that actually wants to read and review messages related to the original topic.
i am so bored of the arguments.
Idaho
continuity character
waterloowelshy said:Why does nearly every thread have to descend into some kind of childish slanging match? Everyone on here appears to try and show off their intellect and i have no doubt that many of the posters are actually quite intellegent - so why then does everything have to degenerate into a pointless, boring and immature argument?
can't you just argue with each other via your private messages so that you don't bore everybody else that actually wants to read and review messages related to the original topic.
i am so bored of the arguments.
Heheheh.. me too but it still beats the boring work I am supposed to be doing.
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
Idaho said:
Maybe.
But, by then, mercifully, I'll be dead!
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
RubberBuccaneer said:
In local govt. terms it no longer exists (the scattered bits of the old Gwent are now in Monmouthshire, Newport Unitary Authority, Torfaen, Blaenau Gwent, & co.)
But yeh, loads of people still talk about 'Newport Gwent' and I guess the name'll be around for a while.
RubberBuccaneer
Hedd Wyn
What longer than the English language
fanta said:
don't be silly.you know what he is talking about.
He was bullied in Wales so now he has a chip on his shoulder. Like a man who hates all blacks because he was bullied by one as a kid.
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
The expression of a guest at one of Idaho's dinner parties:
Dr. Christmas
ca suffit
late convert to the class war are we idaho?
Hereford is Welsh.
Borders are there to be violated....
