Is it worth arguing politics with middle-class people?

[Pickman's model]

Naturally. M/C at the front, W/C at the back.

i am disappointed you appear to have no space for your ruling class chums.

 

[seventh bullet]

Remember when you tried mocking my (very good) knowledge of M-L politics before and I quoted that Russian PFWC autodidact and revolutionary, writing about his grating experience with his liberal social betters? What did you do after that?

 

[rutabowa]

Those that know me, even on here, would have trouble with me being described as like you.

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[chilango]

i am disappointed you appear to have no space for your ruling class chums.

They go in the filofax.

 

[IC3D]

Berkshire

 

[chilango]

Quite.

Its been an eye opener moving here.

 

[Idris2002]

What did you do after that?

.

 

[seventh bullet]

Made a snide comment, probably.

I thought you were trying to be matey.

At least you don't send me offensive PMs any more, by doing the same.

 

[Gromit]

Made a snide comment, probably.

Cooked a balsamic vinegar soufflé... With a raspberry coulee.

 

[Idris2002]

At least you don't send me offensive PMs any more, by doing the same.

.

 

[Pickman's model]

Now hang on a minute, when did I ever send you an offensive PM?

send him one now.

 

[seventh bullet]

Now hang on a minute, when did I ever send you an offensive PM?

By being matey. Acting like a wanker teach. Found any more rough diamonds that need a good polish?

 

[Idris2002]

By being matey. Acting like a wanker teach. Found any more rough diamonds that need a good polish?

.

 

[seventh bullet]

Privately-educated son of a doctor.

 

[Idris2002]

Privately-educated son of a doctor.

.

 

[seventh bullet]

That's what they all say!

 

[Pickman's model]

oh, this is going well

 

[ViolentPanda]

Really?

Was sat in on an argument the other day about the junior doctors, and a mild social democrat was taking a pounding from the others for not completely condemning them.

I couldn't be arsed joining in.

I mean, best case scenario is that all of sudden they all agree with me, then what?

Pah.

Is it fair to to write them off like this and save my energies for discussing concrete stuff with people at the point where they can change stuff - i.e. workplace/community issues, and with people whose interests might be in changing stuff, rather than grandstanding debates with people whose interests lie in keeping things as they are and who haven't the power to change things even if they wanted to?

Or am I being lazy?

My own take is that it's always worth arguing, for two reasons:

1) You may change someone's mind enough that it affects their personal politics, and

2) because it hones your own political arguments.

 

[krtek a houby]

Some threads on urban would make me think twice. This isn't one of them, however.

 

[chilango]

Curious that alongside a few people rightly pointing out that arguing my case is worth it for the sake of sharpening my case and butchersapron managing to express what I guess I was stumbling towards (read his post - it nails what I was trying to say) there's been quite a lot of "(((m/c))) / don't label people" posts and assumptions that it's the different opinions in themselves that bother me.

*shrugs*

Guess I need to be sharper in my thread title and opening post next time....

 

[tim]

Never mind all the critics Chilago, here are some absurdly opinionated officer types who would clearly see no point in picking a bone with you.

 

[nino_savatte]

I find arguing with liberals more frustrating tbh. They're often incoherent and possess no sense of history and are usually more than willing to accommodate fash. Liberals, along with their Tory pals, will sometimes claim that "anti-fascists are as bad as the far right".

 

[krtek a houby]

I find arguing with liberals more frustrating tbh. They're often incoherent and possess no sense of history and are usually more than willing to accommodate fash. Liberals, along with their Tory pals, will sometimes claim that "anti-fascists are as bad as the far right".

Oh, the irony. You generalise them for generalising

 

[Sprocket.]

I bet everyone on this thread is middle class lol

'No son of mine is going to be a bloody namby-pamby coal miner. He'll earn a proper man's living and be a poet like his fatha and his fatha afore him'

 

[nino_savatte]

Oh, the irony. You generalise them for generalising

Fuck off

 

[krtek a houby]

Fuck off

How very coherent of you.

 

[Cid]

'No son of mine is going to be a bloody namby-pamby coal miner. He'll earn a proper man's living and be a poet like his fatha and his fatha afore him'

 

[nino_savatte]

How very coherent of you.

Yes, it is coherent. Would you rather I rephrase my reply in the style of one of Georg Hegel's philosophical tomes? On your bike.

 

[teuchter]

Curious that alongside a few people rightly pointing out that arguing my case is worth it for the sake of sharpening my case and butchersapron managing to express what I guess I was stumbling towards (read his post - it nails what I was trying to say) there's been quite a lot of "(((m/c))) / don't label people" posts and assumptions that it's the different opinions in themselves that bother me.

*shrugs*

Guess I need to be sharper in my thread title and opening post next time....

I'm mostly interested in this part of your OP:

people whose interests lie in keeping things as they are and who haven't the power to change things even if they wanted to

This is the middle classes right?

As a middle class person: if I have no power to change things even if I want to, does this mean I am off the hook as far as a responsibility to try and change anything is concerned? I just sit back and hope the working classes get their act together?

 

[krtek a houby]

Yes, it is coherent. Would you rather I rephrase my reply in the style of one of Georg Hegel's philosophical tomes? On your bike.

See, I know who Hegel is without googling it. He was an influence on Marx and Engels, iirc. And I don't own a bike. I walk.