Is it time to build a memorial to the victims of the British Empire?

[Belushi]

Hmm..I can remember learning about 'Great Britain' and how 'Great' we were as an Empire etc etc

Strange, I dont; I was at school in the Eighties and I recall being taught the Empire was a bad thing (bloody lefty teachers )

I'm sure there are some History teachers on here who can let us know about the GCSE syllabus.

 

[Belushi]

I'd be shocked if there was anything today. In the past sure, but thigs have changed massively over the last 30 years.

Aye, If you were at school in the fifties it was all Arthur Bryant and maps with lots of pink on them.

 

[Poi E]

Yes it does. Fact.

Exhibit A: This thread.

What? One vaguely non-establishment board with a thread about colonialism? Beyond academic institutions and sites like this I think most people don't have much knowledge or give two hoots.

 

[jonH]

but the maps still have a lot of the same lines as the empire builders drew

 

[Poi E]

Most European countries could have memorials for their Empires.

Yeah. The Belgians have the whole Congo as a memorial.

 

[London_Calling]

I'd be shocked if there was anything today. In the past sure, but thigs have changed massively over the last 30 years.

The point is though that, unless more people enjoy 'life learning' that I'm aware of, the vast maj of the population believe what they grew up being implicitly and explicitly educated to accept.

I have no idea what the BBC turns out these days.

 

[Xanadu]

Hardly. While the British Empire started as a purely commercial venture, by the Victorian era it was clear that it was intended to civilise, evangelise and bring nations together as they had not been before. This continued into the 20th century. While there were many less noble events in a history spanning several hundred years and a large proportion of the world's population, the fault of the British, such as we may judge it now, lies in failing to communicate effectively the benefits of the enterprise and thus gaining the natives' support.

Sounds like something you've been taught by rote...

 

[Spion]

Is it time to build a memorial to the victims of the British Empire?

Yeah, why not? It'd be well worth the British public remembering the blood, sweat, slaves, destroyed native industries and millions of dead bodies which helped us become the 4th richest country in the world. We benefit from our imperial past so why not give it the recognition it deserves?

 

[zoltan]

All the victims weren't brown-skinned nor are all the people here racist tory cunts. A massive number of them are as much descendents of the victims of that same ruling class as those abroad.

Most of our Brit ancestors lives shitty, gruelling, poverty stricken, filthy, disease ridden lives to keep the empire going.

the empire didnt just fucke up places over the sea, it fucked the Brits as well

No memorial needed.

 

[Belushi]

but the maps still have a lot of the same lines as the empire builders drew

Yes, though I'm not sure you can blame that on the GCSE syllabus.

 

[Xanadu]

Hmm..I can remember learning about 'Great Britain' and how 'Great' we were as an Empire etc etc

Similar experience to me. I left secondary school in 2002.

 

[jonH]

Yes, though I'm not sure you can blame that on the GCSE syllabus.

they examine whatever they choose, be it lines or dates

 

[zenie]

Similar experience to me. I left secondary school in 2002.

Fuck you're younger than me

We were taught that's why we were called 'Great' Britain.

 

[Farmer Giles]

I want a memorial for the victims of the Viking invasions

@ these threads each and every time they come up on Urban and elsewhere. It's angry politics student territory.

On the money.

 

[butchersapron]

The point is though that, unless more people enjoy 'life learning' that I'm aware of, the vast maj of the population believe what they grew up being implicitly and explicitly educated to accept.

I have no idea what the BBC turns out these days.

Well,

a) So what if true?

b)Is it true - i donlt think so, it's a pretty patronisng and negative view of people and their capabilites that i don't share

c) A monument isn't going to change it - esp one that excludes their own experience of that same ruling class

 

[zenie]

I want a memorial for the victims of the Viking invasions

@ these threads each and every time they come up on Urban and elsewhere. It's angry politics student territory.

heh innit!!

 

[butchersapron]

Fuck you're younger than me

We were taught that's why we were called 'Great' Britain.

What did they teach you was the reason for Great Britain? Because we're great?

 

[editor]

A similar idea to the museum in Berlin about the holocaust?

You're comparing the British Empire to the Holocaust?!

 

[Belushi]

Fuck you're younger than me

We were taught that's why we were called 'Great' Britain.

I'm shocked tbh, I dont know whats happened to history teaching since i left in '88.

 

[untethered]

Yeah. The Belgians have the whole Congo as a memorial.

Ah, the "Belgians".

In fact, prior to 1908, the Congo Free State was a private fiefdom of the Belgian king and run with extreme brutality. After that point and in response to domestic and international concern, the Belgian state took over its operation and turned it into a model colony, with a good system of law and order, education, healthcare etc.

 

[butchersapron]

Why didn't they not take it over?

And yes, staffed and supported by Belgium actually. Not the King on his own.

 

[Spion]

You're comparing the British Empire to the Holocaust?!

In terms of numbers of dead bodies the Empire may put the holocaust to shame

 

[likesfish]

just turned back into a nightmare as soon as they left.
aided and abeted by the CIA and others

 

[sleaterkinney]

Hardly. While the British Empire started as a purely commercial venture, by the Victorian era it was clear that it was intended to civilise, evangelise and bring nations together as they had not been before. This continued into the 20th century. While there were many less noble events in a history spanning several hundred years and a large proportion of the world's population, the fault of the British, such as we may judge it now, lies in failing to communicate effectively the benefits of the enterprise and thus gaining the natives' support.

Is this the friday joke thread?

 

[Belushi]

Ah, the "Belgians".

In fact, prior to 1908, the Congo Free State was a private fiefdom of the Belgian king and run with extreme brutality. After that point and in response to domestic and international concern, the Belgian state took over its operation and turned it into a model colony, with a good system of law and order, education, healthcare etc.

That simply isnt true, the Belgian Government continued the exploitation of the Congo long after that bastard Leopold died.

Anyone interested in the shocking story of the Belgian Congo should read Adam Hoschilds 'King Leopolds Ghost'.

 

[Belushi]

just turned back into a nightmare as soon as they left.
aided and abeted by the CIA and others

Did you catch 'Cuba, Africa, Revolution!' on BBC4 recently, some great footage of Patrice Lumumba losing his temper with King Baudoin at the Independence Ceremony when Baudoin started lauding everything the Belgians had done for the Congo.

 

[Spion]

A book on the subject - Late Victorian Holocausts, by Mike Davis

http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/history/0,6121,424896,00.html

 

[CharlieAddict]

Hardly. While the British Empire started as a purely commercial venture, by the Victorian era it was clear that it was intended to civilise, evangelise and bring nations together as they had not been before. This continued into the 20th century. While there were many less noble events in a history spanning several hundred years and a large proportion of the world's population, the fault of the British, such as we may judge it now, lies in failing to communicate effectively the benefits of the enterprise and thus gaining the natives' support.

support it or not, at least the native's have a voice now...

 

[nino_savatte]

In terms of numbers of dead bodies the Empire may put the holocaust to shame

Innit?

Here are some examples:

The Irish Potato Famine
The Amritsar Massacre
The Opium Wars
The Highland Potato famine (doesn't get talked about much, but it happened).

 

[Brainaddict]

I want a memorial for the victims of the Viking invasions

The Empire was still practicising its brutality within living memory. So a very dumb comparison then.