Is it right for the public to censor the BNP?

[john x]

but they still have the right to say it.

Of course they do. Just as we have the right to smash them off the streets wherever we see them.

In the privacy of their own homes, fine. In public, no way.

john x

 

[audiotech]

Sure, but if I then hacked your login and edited that comment becuase I didn't like it, would that be right?

You'd be banned before you could say free speech for fascists.

 

[ch750536]

You'd be banned before you could say free speech for fascists.

So it would be wrong.

 

[ch750536]

Of course they do. Just as we have the right to smash them off the streets wherever we see them.

In the privacy of their own homes, fine. In public, no way.

john x

I don't think you do have the right to smash them off the streets, the point I'm trying to make.

 

[lobster]

free speech should mean excatly that, it reality it does and doesn't.
free speech should not be confused with freechoice aka freeforall

The world over should be allowed to say what they wish to say,
They should be world agreed upon ethical standards that if not pracised results in a appropriate punishment.


they is a little cliche " talk is cheap" and its many variations.

People often say when they stressed, under pressure "i am going to kill you" in reality most people will not react on that.
its fine to say "i am going to kill you"
killing someone on the other hand must be based on ethical standards ie the reason for killing that person, does the person deserve dying, why,, etc.. ....

wanting to band opposing views will narrrow views all together , history has shown banning far-right leads on to ban far-left.

The more you speak/write protest about banning something , the more attraction the to be banned subject recieves, it can have the opposite effect intended.


There is a alternative internet network called freenet, http://freenet.sourceforge.net/
there FAQ in my opinion explains true free speech, which the world should be model'd on.

 

[audiotech]

So it would be wrong.

Your world of right and wrong knows no bounds.

 

[cathal marcs]

No it only plays in their favour to be honest.

 

[TAE]

ch750536 - do you believe that blatant false advertising should be allowed?

 

[Giles]

I think the only argument in favour of banning BNP from espousing their message in public, is that their message is not "just politics", is it?

It's not just something that people can agree, or agree to disagree about, like the war in Iraq, or privatisation, or something.

Their message often directly incites people to go out and do violence and harm to other people (non-whites).

Hence the laws about inciting racial hatred etc.

Giles..

 

[KeeperofDragons]

A serious question, not a troll etc.

In recent times it has become a custom by a number of people to try to censor the BNP as they do not believe in what the BNP is saying.

This takes form as removing literature to staging protests at BNP events (often legal events might I add).

In a country with free speech, the right to vote etc is this not just fascism?

If they are talking crap, let them. If people want to listen, let them. The public has a right to make up their own minds surely, regardless of what one thinks.

No platform for racists

KoD

 

[Oxpecker]

There should be no platform for fascists. When they try to organise meetings in public buildings we must prevent people from entering; when they try to organise marches we must prevent them from walking down our streets.

By any means necessary.

 

[ch750536]

ch750536 - do you believe that blatant false advertising should be allowed?

Hell no, something that really pisses me off.

 

[ch750536]

I think the only argument in favour of banning BNP from espousing their message in public, is that their message is not "just politics", is it?

It's not just something that people can agree, or agree to disagree about, like the war in Iraq, or privatisation, or something.

Their message often directly incites people to go out and do violence and harm to other people (non-whites).

Hence the laws about inciting racial hatred etc.

Giles..

I'm not sure of the violence standpoint, though I have not read much of their lit.
Taking as read to be true, then the issue is the people commiting the violence and not those spouting violent thoughts, perhaps.

I have some difficulty with the racial hatred laws, I think it can cause more awkwardness than solving an issue.

People need to communicate without fear of recrimination, its only a view, a perspective and its up to others to make their decisions on those views. We are all responsible for our own actions.

 

[trashpony]

Seriously though, why do you post on this message board when all you get is a torrent of abuse every time you do it?

Does it give you a thrill? Do you imagine that you might get someone to come over to the dark side? Or what?

I really am quite interested to know.

 

[ch750536]

No platform for racists

KoD

I dont think its that simple. You are stating that there is something you personally dont like about these people and because of your personal feelings you will stop them talking to people who may like what they say.
Not really your place to make decisions for others.
You must let people hear what they have to say, IMO, if they are talking bollocks, then they will soon falter and fall away.
Keeping the truth from the masses leads the masses to make decisions out of ignorance.
Give them the info they need in order to make an informed decision.

 

[KeeperofDragons]

I dont think its that simple. You are stating that there is something you personally dont like about these people and because of your personal feelings you will stop them talking to people who may like what they say.
Not really your place to make decisions for others.
You must let people hear what they have to say, IMO, if they are talking bollocks, then they will soon falter and fall away.
Keeping the truth from the masses leads the masses to make decisions out of ignorance.
Give them the info they need in order to make an informed decision.

It is that simple

When It's spreading race hate it's not free speech, it's very expensive to those lives these racists effect, in fear, mistrust & what ends up as isolaton due to fear of what will happen if they try to 'intergrate'.

KoD

 

[ch750536]

It is that simple

When It's spreading race hate it's not free speech, it's very expensive to those lives these racists effect, in fear, mistrust & what ends up as isolaton due to fear of what will happen if they try to 'intergrate'.

KoD

What if they put the BNP on TV, cant remember the chaps name, the young guy. So he goes on TV and looks like a complete twat. Now the 99% of the population that couldn't see he was a complete twat now can.

They then lose support.

End of them, no more racial hatred spouting bollocks.

?

 

[KeeperofDragons]

What if they put the BNP on TV, cant remember the chaps name, the young guy. So he goes on TV and looks like a complete twat. Now the 99% of the population that couldn't see he was a complete twat now can.

They then lose support.

End of them, no more racial hatred spouting bollocks.

?

but they still try to spout thier bollocks as on Wednesday just gone in St Albans Unless we keep on & deny them the chance to spout thier race hate bollocks they will keep on.

KoD

 

[ch750536]

but they still try to spout thier bollocks as on Wednesday just gone in St Albans Unless we keep on & deny them the chance to spout thier race hate bollocks they will keep on.

KoD

my point is...
Stick them on TV, give them an hour to say what they want then pull them apart as they are talking bollocks.

 

[KeeperofDragons]

my point is...
Stick them on TV, give them an hour to say what they want then pull them apart as they are talking bollocks.

But as has been proved time & again in differnt areas that just so wrong. Some of us have been fighting the bnp & thier previos incarnaton the national front for decades. The way to stop these bastards is to cut off access to publicity whether on TV, rallies, local meetings whenever they try to spout thier racist bollocks -

no platform, no racist bollocks

KoD

 

[ch750536]

But as has been proved time & again in differnt areas that just so wrong. Some of us have been fighting the bnp & thier previos incarnaton the national front for decades. The way to stop these bastards is to cut off access to publicity whether on TV, rallies, local meetings whenever they try to spout thier racist bollocks -

no platform, no racist bollocks

KoD

Dunno, you're probably right, I just feel really uncomfortable with the fact that the only way to stop someone having opinions you don't like is to stop them hearing things that may form that opinion.
I would feel much more comfortable knowing that the rubbish has no effect, people know its rubbish.
Bit like a parent not letting their child watch horror movies, in case it warps thier brains. Only the child is 36 and is an accountant.

 

[TAE]

Originally Posted by TAE
ch750536 - do you believe that blatant false advertising should be allowed?

Hell no, something that really pisses me off.

Ok, what about if the BNP say things about other people which are blatantly not true or extremely misleading.

I think you can see where I am going with this.

 

[Harold Hill]

The way to stop these bastards is to cut off access to publicity whether on TV, rallies, local meetings whenever they try to spout thier racist bollocks -



KoD

Yeah because that doesn't make them more attarctive to a percentage of disenfranchised, mainly white, working class 'Look the State are trying to ban us for telling the truth' etc.

Have no problem persons or communities acting against the BNP directly although its a bit rich when people put a local BNP organisers home address/phone number then complain about Redwatch.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

There should be no platform for fascists. When they try to organise meetings in public buildings we must prevent people from entering; when they try to organise marches we must prevent them from walking down our streets.

By any means necessary.

I take it that this is on the basis of past victims of fascism? If so, why not also ban hard left groups on the basis of the millions killed by Mao and Stalin? And islamist groups on the basis of vicious regimes like the Taliban? And indeed pro-capitalist organisations on the basis of people who have suffered due to global poverty? Christian organisations because of the millions killed during the Crusades?

Why not just ban everyone you disagree with, eh? Then we can all live under the Glorious Regime of Oxpecker, subject to the mighty and righteous calling of the Buffalo-Annoying one!

 

[fishfingerer]

Political correctness gone mad.

 

[ch750536]

Ok, what about if the BNP say things about other people which are blatantly not true or extremely misleading.

I think you can see where I am going with this.

A lot of it is opinion. If it were a simple case of lies then there would be no newspapers at all.

 

[LLETSA]

Yeah because that doesn't make them more attarctive to a percentage of disenfranchised, mainly white, working class 'Look the State are trying to ban us for telling the truth' etc.

Have no problem persons or communities acting against the BNP directly although its a bit rich when people put a local BNP organisers home address/phone number then complain about Redwatch.

What puzzles me about today's no platformers is that the fact that the BNP already has one seems to have escaped them.

Nearly a million votes for the BNP in 2004 would seem to suggest that they are either living in the past or sticking their heads in the sand.

 

[X-77]

although its a bit rich when people put a local BNP organisers home address/phone number then complain about Redwatch.

I have read this accusation from the fash as a justification for them 'getting their own back' via Redwatch although I have yet to come across an actual case of it. Where exactly have left-wing activists put out local BNP organisers home addresses and phone numbers?

 

[Harold Hill]

Here.

 

[Harold Hill]

What puzzles me about today's no platformers is that the fact that the BNP already has one seems to have escaped them.

Nearly a million votes for the BNP in 2004 would seem to suggest that they are either living in the past or sticking their heads in the sand.

The bogeyman status might be paying some unexpected dividends. If you buy the any publicity theory, after the incidents in Lozells where there wasn't any WASp participation they are the only political party that is mentioned in relation to it.