Is it necessary to be agressive to cycle in a city

[gentlegreen]

Started bloody raining an all now innit...

I suppose I'd better hit the road in a minute in case I get caught in it ... though we had a sprinkle a while ago ....

.

 

[Radar]

Means you don't have to sweat as much

Yes you do, rain ==> road clogs up and drivers go mental

Sweat ??, I'm shitting myself half the time

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Paulie, can I just ask, do you drive a car/can you drive? If you did you'd be more than aware of the fact that as with cycling and riding a mo'bike that every now and again your concentration DOES lapse (it's a facet of human psychology that you can't keep constantly concentrating).

Passed my test 23 years ago, not a point on my license, never been stopped for speeding, never had an accident, even driving 7.5 tonne trucks delivering carpets.

Yes, concentration of anyone can lapse, never said it couldn't - however, there is a difference, namely, if my concentration lapses when I'm cycling, its probably gonna be me whose hurting, whereas in a vehicle of any kind, the odds shift dramatically towards other road users paying the price.

On a thread where cyclists have been berated and much worse for not concentrating sufficiently well because of headphone wearing, i pointed out that no-one had even passed comment on someone stating baldly that s/he had almost hit a cyclist when driving a car due, in part, to a lack of concentration i.e exactly the same situation as the headphone wearing (a lack of total concentration that could lead to an accident, even though the accident may not have been the wearers responsibility e.g. a random shopping trolley rolling into the road and hitting the cyclist who couldn't hear the shouts )

So my point stands basically, I don't really agree that wearing headphones is a safe way to proceed, but I think there are many many more dangers on the roads than i-pod-loving-wheelsters, yet cyclists continue to get it in the neck. Wtf that has to do with aggressive riding, i don't know......

To Cobbles, you note "odd cycle-red-light lapse" - what do you think about the car drivers who have the "odd car-red-light lapse", is that concentration or another example of "i'm-the-king-of-the-road-so-get-out-the-fuckin-way lapse"? - i'll show you a few junctions on Kingsland Road where, as a cyclist, the first thing I have to do before proceeding when lights change to green is look both ways cos so many motorists jump the red lights after they have changed.

 

[Spandex]

i pointed out that no-one had even passed comment on someone stating baldly that s/he had almost hit a cyclist when driving a car due, in part, to a lack of concentration.

No, read it again - I almost hit a cylist because they shot a red light while I was going though a green light. If there had been any lack of concentration on my part on that occasion I would have hit them. It certainly shook me up thinking about what almost happened.

if my concentration lapses when I'm cycling, its probably gonna be me whose hurting.

Sure, you'll come off worse, but it'll certainly affect whoever hits you. I know I'd feel pretty fucked up knowing I'd killed someone, even if there wasn't anything I could have done to stop it.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

No, read it again - I almost hit a cylist because they shot a red light while I was going though a green light. If there had been any lack of concentration on my part on that occasion I would have hit them. It certainly shook me up thinking about what almost happened.

I know you did - what i am comparing is the fact that your actions passed without comment, whereas a cyclist in a similar situation (involved in accident due to other person's actions but unable to avoid thru a lack of concentration) is cast as the devils spawn.

Sure, you'll come off worse, but it'll certainly affect whoever hits you. I know I'd feel pretty fucked up knowing I'd killed someone, even if there wasn't anything I could have done to stop it.

So I'm meant to feel sorry for a car driver who runs me over when he jumps a red light then cos I didn't concentrate enough to make sure that he wasn't jumping it, is that what you're saying? This is going round in circles as usual.

 

[Major Tom]

on the subject of cyclists taking positive (some say agression):

There is a bike lane in Kennington wich is pretty much universally ignored by motorists. Some bloke this morning had driven up the clear lane to the right and pulled in onto the cycle lane in order to get into the lane he should have been in in the first place. The sort of behaviour which infuriates many motorists - and noone was letting him in so he was stopped on the cycle lane. I was just going to overtake and keep going but he pulled right without indicating and I had to stop.

So I went round his left side - & decided to take some action. I stopped in front of him, in the cycle lane and looked at him. He shouted some stuff at me (MP3 player and glass in car preventing me from hearing whatever he was saying). I asked him not to stop in the cycle lane in future, and he started making crap excuses about trying to get in the lane etc. I said that was irrelevent as he was blocking the lane I wanted to be in. Then I moved on. Instantly I was pulled over by the police and warned that I might be arrested for "willful obstruction" as he put it.

I explainned that the car was obstructing the cycle lane but got another threat of arrest.

So the police claim they haven't got resources to enforce cycle lanes, but they seem to have the time to harrass cyclists who do try to enforce the cycle lanes.

No wonder some cyclists act as if they're outside the law!

I went on a cycle to rule this morning after that. It's amazing how many motorists you can piss off if you wait till the signal to go green instead of rushing off the minute the amber appears. The fraction of a second involved is apparently of the utmost importance to all motorists.

 

[Spandex]

So I'm meant to feel sorry for a car driver who runs me over when he jumps a red light then cos I didn't concentrate enough to make sure that he wasn't jumping it, is that what you're saying? This is going round in circles as usual.

Nah - that's not what I'm saying at all

I don't think we disagree too much. My problem is with the attitude that some cyclists have that their actions will only affect them, since car drivers are safely cocooned in their lumps of metal.

 

[gentlegreen]

I was pulled over by the police and warned that I might be arrested for "willful obstruction" as he put it.

I explainned that the car was obstructing the cycle lane but got another threat of arrest.

Gawd noze what they'd have done to me since I would either be sitting right behind the moron with my finger on the horn button - if not whacking the roof on my way past ...

You never actually see traffic cops in Bristol ...

.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

I don't think we disagree too much. My problem is with the attitude that some cyclists have that their actions will only affect them, since car drivers are safely cocooned in their lumps of metal.

I don't think so either (disagree that is). My problem though is the attitude that most, IME, car drivers take in thinking that their actions don't really affect anyone outside of their little metal box.

Anyway, enough already, peace

 

[Crispy]

I've seen the police on cylces pull a whole peloton over after they all jumped a red once. Highly embaressing for all concerned

And if I'm thinking of the same cycle lane in Kennington (opposite the park, right?) - yes it's a deathtrap. 4 lanes of traffic with a 1 metere green stripe that just appears down the middle of it all.

 

[Major Tom]

And if I'm thinking of the same cycle lane in Kennington (opposite the park, right?) - yes it's a deathtrap. 4 lanes of traffic with a 1 metere green stripe that just appears down the middle of it all.

It's exactly where I probably would be cycling anyway - whether there was a cycle lane there or not. But I do find it slightly useful - it actually helps reinforce my right to be on that part of the road. I just wisjed the lane started further back on the road - cos there is a tricky bit where the road widens and cyclists get cut up a lot there if they're not careful. I know other junctions like that where it really is dangerous to cycle on any part of the road other than the fare left because traffic will just cut across lanes like I'm not there. But here, I find it happens less often.

That's one reason why I'm so annoyed at the police this morning. Instead of supporting me - an experienced cyclist who does know the road very well - he takes the authoritarian arsehole line and tells me I'm not allowed to attempt to make my world a little safer. I wouldn't mind so much, but I don;t exactly see the police enforcing cycle lanes.

 

[Crispy]

Thing is, loads of drivers just treat it as if it was a normal dashed lane dividing line, and pull across it quite randomly. If it wasn't there, then cyclists would be forced back into a regular lane, where they'd probably be much safer (another argument against the 'safety' of cycle lanes there)