Is it necessary to be agressive to cycle in a city

[Orang Utan]

Orang, really no offence intended and I do see your point re: road safety, but isn't a bit rude to be claiming to know better than people who've been road riding for years when you've been at it a month?

I don't care if it's rude.
It's stupid to take such unnecessary risks.

 

[Orang Utan]

Anyway, I would have thought the biggest risk in wearing headphones is in the focus of your attention being on the music, not the road, rather than any hearing they might block.
Maybe Major Tom has his music on Muzak style and it's only a whispering in the background. To me that is more intolerable to me than no music at all.

 

[Crispy]

Heh, there's some music that nobody whould ever get beind the wheel of anything to Christ, if I put some pounding techno on, I'd go tunnel vision and start sprinting...

 

[gentlegreen]

Anyway, I would have thought the biggest risk in wearing headphones is in the focus of your attention being on the music, not the road, rather than any hearing they might block.
Maybe Major Tom has his music on Muzak style and it's only a whispering in the background. To me that is more intolerable to me than no music at all.

Some of us can even chew gum too

In my case it's mostly medium pace dubby house at the moment.

On an empty, familiar road, pounding detroit techno is worth a gear or two

.

 

[ChrisFilter]

I don't care if it's rude.
It's stupid to take such unnecessary risks.

Probably best that you never take drugs unless you've made them yourself then

 

[ChrisFilter]

Some of us can even chew gum too

In my case it's mostly medium pace dubby house at the moment.

On an empty, familiar road, pounding detroit techno is worth a gear or two

.

training rides at weekends I used to use d'n'b.. could get another few mph doing that!

 

[Spandex]

The best thing about cycling, is that the only real damage you cause is to yourself - give or take the few stray pedestrians, who should have compensated for my drunkeness anyhow.

Is this an attempt to be deliberatly provocative?

A cyclist hitting a pedestrian may not be as bad as a car or lorry hitting a pedestrian but they can really fuck someone up.

A few months ago a friend was hit by a cyclist shooting across a crossing - she was knocked unconsious, lost her short term memory for a few hours and walked around in a daze, unable to cope with loud noise for a couple of months. Which didn't help since she has 2 small kids.

And as someone said above, if you get yourself killed that will have a big impact on the poor fucker who kills you. I nearly hit a cyclist who was shooting a red light a while ago - and by near, I mean I managed to stop my car about an inch from him - if I hadn't been paying attention (which, to be honest, I sometimes don't when I'm driving) he would be dead and I would have killed him. I was certainly a bit distracted for the rest of the drive home.

Hope this doesn't come accross as an anti-cyclist rant - I only drive as I have to travel around a rural county for work and didn't have a car as long as I lived in London - but the 'it only puts me at risk so I can do what I want' attitude really pisses me off.

 

[ChrisFilter]

do you have a playing card attached to your rear wheel with a clothes peg?

Nope, it's when all you can hear is the bike's tyre on the pavement and the wind going past your ear.. it's nearly silent, but at a decent speed it sounds fucking great

 

[Orang Utan]

if I put some pounding techno on, I'd go tunnel vision and start sprinting...

Hmm...maybe this is why I'm so anti-headphones - I would LOVE to able to listen to music whilst cycling, but I just get too involved with the music to want to be riding a bike at the same time. I was always missing stops when on the bus or train cos I was listening to a wicked drum section or getting carried away swaying to some nice strings.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Bicycles? Fuck the highway code...... That was designed for machines that have the capacity to kill. Anyhow, cycling should be encouraged in all its forms, even if it means turning a blind-eye to various indiscretions.

The best thing about cycling, is that the only real damage you cause is to yourself - give or take the few stray pedestrians, who should have compensated for my drunkeness anyhow.

I display my numerous bicycle injuries with pride - like battle wounds.

Throughout my life, I have refused to drive a car, or even learn, so when I get on the road with my bike, I feel that the road belongs to me.

People often forget about the damaging effect that cars bring to our society, and drivers deserve to be taxed to the max. No exceptions. I am totally with Ken Livingstone on this one - even regarding mothers driving their children to school.

A word about London. I have lived in various places in the world - big cities and small, and have always cycled. However, cycling in London has always been a rather terrifying ordeal - especially either side of London Bridge.

surely it would have been more effiecent in terms of text merely to write...

I am a selfish cock on the roads and a danger to others..

save us having to wade through your egotistical shit....

 

[Major Tom]

Orang, really no offence intended and I do see your point re: road safety, but isn't a bit rude to be claiming to know better than people who've been road riding for years when you've been at it a month? .

Really?!?

Bugger me!

I agree entirely, Orang, you sound like an over-zealous health and safety man to me.

Chill out

BTW - accuse me of listening to muzac again and you die

 

[Major Tom]

And Chris, are you saying that headphones have zero impact on your ability to hear things? I understand it's the cyclist's call - but they must understand the impact on their awareness, however slight you may think it is.

I'm interested in the fact that motorists having fucking loud stereos and the impact that must have on their driving has just been dismisse dout of hand.

If its unsafe for cyclists to listen to music, then its even less safe for motorists.

I'm still not exactly sure how listening to music impacts upon my personal safety while riding a bike? Do other people ride their bike ready to give way to anything noisy coming up behind them?

 

[Crispy]

Don't worry Orang, I've been riding for 3 years and I think it's a silly idea too

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm interested in the fact that motorists having fucking loud stereos and the impact that must have on their driving has just been dismisse dout of hand.

If its unsafe for cyclists to listen to music, then its even less safe for motorists.

I'd agree with that.
If you're not giving your full attention to the road whilst driving/riding, then you should be off it.

 

[gentlegreen]

Do other people ride their bike ready to give way to anything noisy coming up behind them?

I used to listen to FM radio and enjoy sensing the frustration of motorists based on the interference

.

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm still not exactly sure how listening to music impacts upon my personal safety while riding a bike? Do other people ride their bike ready to give way to anything noisy coming up behind them?

Cos your mind is concentrating on music AND the road, when it should only be focussed on the road.
How many people crash cars or are involved with accident cos their mind is on other matters?

 

[Major Tom]

Nope, it's when all you can hear is the bike's tyre on the pavement and the wind going past your ear.. it's nearly silent, but at a decent speed it sounds fucking great

I agree - and no I don;t wear 'phones on a leisure ride - only on my city commute route.

I remember the sound of last years Dunwich Dynamo - 3 am, not a soul in sight, only bats and the odd small rodent runnign across the road.

 

[Crispy]

I'm interested in the fact that motorists having fucking loud stereos and the impact that must have on their driving has just been dismisse dout of hand.

I didn't dismiss it, I said I don't do it when I drive a car. Seeing as how you're already insulated from the outside world in a car, quiet music doesn't make much difference.

Second, as a cyclist you automatically have less visual awareness due to lack of mirrors etc. This makes your hearing more important.

I'm still not exactly sure how listening to music impacts upon my personal safety while riding a bike? Do other people ride their bike ready to give way to anything noisy coming up behind them?

If, for example, there's a crap driver about to overtake me far too close, and I could manouver over to let them pass safely, I will hear them, and therefore react, sooner if my hearing is less impaired. If I have more time to move, there is less chance of an accident. Therefore, better hearing reduces the chances of me being hurt. Wearing headphones makes my hearing worse. Therefore wearing headphones makes me less safe. Capiche?

 

[gentlegreen]

I'd agree with that.
If you're not giving your full attention to the road whilst driving/riding, then you should be off it.

In 28 years of 2-wheeled transport the only time I ever had a problem was trying to ride a motorcycle with The Who's "Whos Next" blasting into me lugholes.

I guess this many years down the line - including years of experience of raves, my whole "take" on music is different.

I'm certain that it helps that I also have experience of driving cars. (and do so once or twice a week).

 

[Major Tom]

Cos your mind is concentrating on music AND the road, when it should only be focussed on the road.
How many people crash cars or are involved with accident cos their mind is on other matters?

I know I'm autistic, but I am able to listen to music and cycle at the same time - 30 years in the saddle don' forget.

If you can;t I suggest you use public transport - maybe when you're an experienced cyclist like me you too will be able to do two things at once.

 

[richtea]

Can't be arsed to read through thread, but.. aggressive, no. Just be assertive and ride confidently.

• Don't be afraid to take the lane if you're going the same speed as other traffic.
  
• DON'T RUN RED LIGHTS.
  
• Don't be an arsehole - being friendly and letting other cars into traffic can be a nice thing sometimes (one good turn, etc).
  
• Cyclists are to car drivers what pedestrians are to cyclists - try not to cycle erratically, make obvious what your next maneouvre is going to be.
  
• Don't cycle no-handed through a red light whilst chatting on your mobile (like the numpty I saw nr London Bridge this week).

 

[Rock Bottom]

Is this an attempt to be deliberatly provocative?

No. As the poster above hinted at, I was being slightly tongue-in-cheek. Where pedestrians are involved, you obviously err on the side of caution.

A cyclist hitting a pedestrian may not be as bad as a car or lorry hitting a pedestrian but they can really fuck someone up.

A few months ago a friend was hit by a cyclist shooting across a crossing - she was knocked unconsious, lost her short term memory for a few hours and walked around in a daze, unable to cope with loud noise for a couple of months. Which didn't help since she has 2 small kids.

I'm sure there are irresponsible cyclists on the road, as their are irresponsible people in general, but don't try to claim that cyclists are persistant menaces who are responsible for the majority of accidents on the roads. This is simply not true.

And as someone said above, if you get yourself killed that will have a big impact on the poor fucker who kills you. I nearly hit a cyclist who was shooting a red light a while ago - and by near, I mean I managed to stop my car about an inch from him - if I hadn't been paying attention (which, to be honest, I sometimes don't when I'm driving) he would be dead and I would have killed him. I was certainly a bit distracted for the rest of the drive home.

So the sympathy should go to the motorist rather than the deceased cyclist???????

Hope this doesn't come accross as an anti-cyclist rant - I only drive as I have to travel around a rural county for work and didn't have a car as long as I lived in London - but the 'it only puts me at risk so I can do what I want' attitude really pisses me off.

Actually, this does come across as an anti-cyclist rant, as you have mentioned two experiences which must surely be isolated events, rather than the norm.

 

[gentlegreen]

These are about the right balance of acoustics and open-ness.
If I didn't wear headphones I'd need earmuffs .

 

[ChrisFilter]

If, for example, there's a crap driver about to overtake me far too close, and I could manouver over to let them pass safely, I will hear them, and therefore react, sooner if my hearing is less impaired. If I have more time to move, there is less chance of an accident. Therefore, better hearing reduces the chances of me being hurt. Wearing headphones makes my hearing worse. Therefore wearing headphones makes me less safe. Capiche?

But I can barely hear cars headphones-free even when they're close anyway..

I dunno, I see it in two ways:

1. I wouldn't want someone who's inexperienced of road riding, or riding at speed, or who isn't very confident on the roads riding with headphones. It will distract them, and it will impact on their safety.

2. An experienced, confident cyclist who is comfortable riding safely at speed in heavy traffic will use their ears very little anyway. A) The speed of the wind past the ear blocks out most sound anyway, as does the heavy traffic and B) You build up an awareness of the road and you learn to use sight and experience to have a safe ride.

 

[Major Tom]

I didn't dismiss it, I said I don't do it when I drive a car. Seeing as how you're already insulated from the outside world in a car, quiet music doesn't make much difference.

Second, as a cyclist you automatically have less visual awareness due to lack of mirrors etc. This makes your hearing more important.

I seriously disagree with this - my head - like most humans - has a swivel function, and there's no blind spot, and no tendency to become blase about what's around me. I drive too, so am able to compare the two activities directly. On a bike - I have much better visual awareness.

Anyway - while there are some responsible motorists there are of course many more who tweak their stereos up to full volume and drive like complete loonies. I know cos I see them. And hear them.

If, for example, there's a crap driver about to overtake me far too close, and I could manouver over to let them pass safely,

Well there's your problem in a nutshell - you should read the government advice on defensive cycling - NO WAY SHOULD YOU BE GIVING WAY TO VEHICLES COMING FROM BEHIND YOU. No wonder they treat cyclists like 3rd class road users.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I'm interested in the fact that motorists having fucking loud stereos and the impact that must have on their driving has just been dismisse dout of hand.

depends on the driver really, music or no it doesn't affect my driving no matter what the noise level...

If its unsafe for cyclists to listen to music, then its even less safe for motorists.

no it's not if a cycleist had a system of speakers which were not clamped to their ears and therefore limited the amount of other noise they could hear then it'd be perfectly acceptable to cycle with music on, indeed on quite roads it's prolly totally acceptable to listen to music and even on busier roads with only one head phone it this would usually be alright...

I'm still not exactly sure how listening to music impacts upon my personal safety while riding a bike? Do other people ride their bike ready to give way to anything noisy coming up behind them?

it's not the music that effects you it's the quitening effect that having your ears covered has on your surrondings with regards to other noise...

however clearly the argument is a nonstart really otherwise every motorcycleist would fall off seconds after getting on the bike...

 

[Crispy]

Don't forget that a sample of 1 is statistically irrelevant.

Congratulations, you haven't had an accident.
I've never had cancer - pass the fags!

Anyway, this isn't a massive point, you obviously won't be swayed and it's just one small thing. Brothers we should be united against the common enemy - the irresponsible twats like Rock Bottom who ruin it for the rest of us!

 

[perplexis]

I often have headphones on while cycling.
I'm not ashamed. I don't listen to it too loud to hear cars or shouts or sirens. I can concentrate on the road when I've got tunes on in the background.
It's not like actually listening to music but it definitely helps get me going in the mornings

 

[Crispy]

Well there's your problem in a nutshell - you should read the government advice on defensive cycling - NO WAY SHOULD YOU BE GIVING WAY TO VEHICLES COMING FROM BEHIND YOU. No wonder they treat cyclists like 3rd class road users.

I generally don't - and I know the reasons why, but I've had this happen several times with buses - I'm riding well out into the road, when a bus will try and squeeze in between me and oncoming traffic on the other side. The first thing I know about it is the sound approaching me over my shoulder - this gets my attention, I look back, see the fucking thing coming and get out the way. It's either that or have my right thigh polished smooth by the side of the bus.

 

[Major Tom]

Don't forget that a sample of 1 is statistically irrelevant.

Congratulations, you haven't had an accident.
I've never had cancer - pass the fags!

Anyway, this isn't a massive point, you obviously won't be swayed and it's just one small thing. Brothers we should be united against the common enemy -

loony motorists and the pro-car industry lobby

the irresponsible twats like Rock Bottom who ruin it for the rest of us!

oh