Is it just me or does this experiment by TfL make zero sense?

Discussion in 'transport' started by Bungle73, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. Bungle73

    Bungle73 I was there, now I'm here Banned

    Greebo and eme like this.
  2. emanymton

    emanymton A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.

    I've always thought the the idea of standing on the right walking on the left was one of London's greatest cultural innovations, that really should be exported nationwide. And yes the escalators move at a set speed so don't see how making everyone stand will ease the congestion? Unless naybe the idea is to try and slow the flow of people off the escalator to reduce congestion around the entrance/exit? That might have an effect.
    Reno, Greebo, muscovyduck and 2 others like this.
  3. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    If everyone is standing still, you can get more people on the escalator at any one time. Assuming everyone gets off on separate steps, that ought to mean more people can get on and off per second if you're all still (assuming escalator is always full).
    SpookyFrank, marty21, innit and 2 others like this.
  4. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Yes, I think this too. And I always walk. Really, what we need an extra third 'fast' lane.
    marty21, Greebo, eme and 6 others like this.
  5. two sheds

    two sheds Least noticed poster 2007

    Yes but you don't stand still when you get on the escalator. You step on - what you do after that is going to be immaterial unless people start going backwards.
  6. Bungle73

    Bungle73 I was there, now I'm here Banned

    Sorry, I don't see it. People moving is faster than people not moving; it's common sense. I can only see this idea causing a huge backlog at the bottom of escalators as everyone queues to wait their turn.
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  7. two sheds

    two sheds Least noticed poster 2007

    And it takes off.
  8. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    The walking lane has lower carrying capacity than the standing lane. (Walkers need to be further apart.) So two standing lanes will have higher carrying capacity.
    innit and existentialist like this.
  9. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    yes. but i would have thought that there would be safety benefits to keeping one lane free too.
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  10. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Assuming maximum capacity, potentially two people get off at each step if you're all standing. It will be less than two with a walking lane.
  11. two sheds

    two sheds Least noticed poster 2007

    As long as one person can get on the bottom step each time you'll have a full escalator. Then people will be moving at a speed of (p+e) rather than just a speed of e. So escalator takes off. :)
  12. two sheds

    two sheds Least noticed poster 2007

  13. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Nope. Two people - getting off. There are two lanes.
    two sheds likes this.
  14. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    but would the escalator be designed to take such a load?
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  15. Spymaster

    Spymaster Cockney Wanker

    It shouldn't be exported for all to learn. There'd be nobody standing on the left for us to tut at disapprovingly.
    Greebo, muscovyduck, maomao and 2 others like this.
  16. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Or, worse in some ways, walking too slowly. I don't tut at people standing on the left. I ask them to move.
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  17. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    I believe they are, but the bearings on one side always wear out first.

    fwiw during the joyful period when Brixton was having it's escalators rebuilt they has someone at the bottom calling on people to walk down, not stand.
    two sheds likes this.
  18. pogofish

    pogofish Testicle Hairstyle

    Nope - TFL did some research a few years back (linked on a previous walking on escalators thread) that proved pretty effectively that crowding at many bottlenecks/pinch-points in their system are the direct result of waves of people impatiently stomping along escalators.

    This could well be the upshot and stopping people from walking should help smooth/even the flow of people.
    neonwilderness likes this.
  19. Bahnhof Strasse

    Bahnhof Strasse In the AreA

    What about travelators? CTR any fucker found standing rather than walking is going right up against the wall. Is there still one at Bank? What do TFL say about that?
  20. EastEnder

    EastEnder Brixton Barnacle

    Surely it all depends on how fast people walk up the up escalator, and how quickly other walkers board behind them? Assuming a constant flow of people getting on the bottom, with no breaks, then the maximum speed of an escalator full of static people is the speed of the escalator itself. If the rate of walkers joining the left hand side exceeds the speed of the escalator, and they all walk up faster that its speed, the net effect will be more people per unit time reaching the top. I would imagine it all comes down to the ratio of walkers to non-walkers, with TFL presuming that the number of non-walkers is sufficiently great to create a bottleneck when only one "lane" is walking.

    Clearly the answer to make everyone walk up BOTH sides, with marksmen positioned along the length of the escalator, ready to pick off dawdlers.
    girasol, Greebo, Enviro and 1 other person like this.
  21. Hocus Eye.

    Hocus Eye. Snap, crop, scrap crap R.I.P.

    I don't mind if people walk up the escalator or ride up it, as long as they don't stop dead when they get to the top. This especially if they have a suitcase on wheels which you are likely to trip over as you are brought up towards them on the moving escalator.
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  22. two sheds

    two sheds Least noticed poster 2007

    Yep instant pileup :mad:
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  23. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Actually what I'm describing only applies at full capacity. It's why both lanes grind to a halt when it's busy. No need to do anything other than follow the rule 'if there's a step to step onto, step onto it'.

    So this is just what pogofish was talking about - regulating flow across the whole station.

    Can't see it ever working, tbh. :D
    Greebo likes this.
  24. trabuquera

    trabuquera Modesty Bag

    This seems to make some sense, but like others on the thread - if you went through the escalatorless period of Brixton Tube station, it looked as though it was only the energetic striders upward who ware clearing the clogging backlog of passengers which clotted the exit hall after every single train.

    whatever "new rule" is imposed you can bet that it'll never catch on - just look at the idiotic tourists / idlers / selfish bastarts who don't hold to the 'stand on the right hand side' code even though it's been established for decades. :mad:
    Greebo likes this.
  25. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Yes, the idea that such people could now be deemed right. Well, that's just wrong. :mad:
    emanymton likes this.
  26. laptop

    laptop Freudenschade

    This. The numbers have spoken.
    pogofish likes this.
  27. pogofish

    pogofish Testicle Hairstyle

    Or maybe they should have introduced left-standing escalators as well - Standing on the right simply does not come naturally to many of us! :p :D
  28. maomao

    maomao 四月她爹

    The only time I absolutely have to walk on the escalator is if there's some cunt standing on the left. Or just as bad, dangling bags across the left hand side at a nice bootable height.

    It probably does make sense, and utilises the full capacity but I'd rather be slower overall and have an option for being in a hurry. There's be nothing worse than being stuck on a standing only escalator when you're in a hurry.
    emanymton likes this.
  29. 2hats


    Various crowd flow modelling studies (cellular automata, being one approach) suggest that peak throughput is theoretically possible with everyone standing - perhaps a 20% improvement in throughput for all standing over both all walking or a mix of standing and walking. It is also considered safer for all to stand (considering mixed abilities and aspirations) rather than have some moving at varying speeds (statistics also suggest fewer accidents when everyone is stationary).

    However, you can't maximise throughput without ensuring there is sufficient space to both join and leave the escalators safely at those levels because, at higher densities, crowds start to experience 'shockwave' effects (ease of propagation of compression waves) which lead to panic, injuries and fatalities (additionally multiplying already present environmental risk factors).

    Walking scenarios are hampered by the lack of communication/co-ordination between participants: the walking half of the escalator is constrained by the slowest occupant and can never (safely) achieve the packing density of the stationary half. Typically the packing density of the walking file is at best about one third that of the stationary file (various studies suggest the density needs to be around one-quarter for truly free movement of individuals). They would all need to move around the same speed in order to avoid congestion effects propagating and reducing the overall throughput further (cf traffic jams). Walk/stand solutions are also obviously stymied by those who ignore/are unaware of the left/right rule (or block the file with luggage/associates deep in conversation or persons otherwise distracted/uncooperative).
    mango5, Sue, existentialist and 2 others like this.
  30. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable


    If you have a thousand people to shepherd onto an escalator, and only 100 of them are going to walk, you've 900 to get into one lane. Get rid of the walking lane and you can put 500 on each lane. Slower for 100 people, but probably quicker for anyone slowed down by bunching.

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