Is it all bollocks

[Brainaddict]

Who on earth says that it's only theoretical!? It's real and it's concrete.

As was explained to you, it's only theoretical because it's not felt or noticed by the people involved. They feel nothing in common with each other, do not sense that their interests are aligned and feel no urge to fight on each other's behalf. Oh I'm sure there's a few far leftists who try to make the linkages, but those are exactly the ones who are trying to impose their theory on reality. For the majority of people what you're saying is wank of the highest order (and bourgoise wank at that ).

 

[poster342002]

Most people are oppressed at work,

In Britain, most people are also the oppressor at work - as most employers ve realised that if you make EVERY member of staff a boss over some other poor sod, solidarity vanishes.

The left has been docile and complicit in this transformation - as most of their feotid membership has been only to keen to two-facedly preach workers rights whilst simultaneously being a corporate-ladderclimbing cocksucker and "managing their staff" at work - with all the inherant oppression that entails.

 

[butchersapron]

As was explained to you, it's only theoretical because it's not felt or noticed by the people involved. They feel nothing in common with each other, do not sense that their interests are aligned and feel no urge to fight on each other's behalf. Oh I'm sure there's a few far leftists who try to make the linkages, but those are exactly the ones who are trying to impose their theory on reality. For the majority of people what you're saying is wank of the highest order (and bourgoise wank at that ).

In that sense then the liberal-vicar position is also merely theoretical given that western workers don't think they're exploiting other people each time they buy something. The link is only theoretical in the minds of people like you hopped up on excotic tourism and middle class prejudice when home - shared conditions, experiences, managers and personel even is objectiely real. Nice of you to have talked to everyone outside of the country on your travels and for them to allow you to talk for them too. That was nice of them.

 

[simon foster]

In that sense then the liberal-vicar position is also merely theoretical given that western workers don't think they're exploiting other people each time they buy something. The link is only theoretical in the minds of people like you hopped up on excotic tourism and middle class prejudice when home - shared conditions, experiences, managers and personel even is objectiely real. Nice of you to have talked to everyone outside of the country on your travels and for them to allow you to talk for them too. That was nice of them.

Do you not think that getting wound up like this is unhealthy? What's the weather like outside? Go for a walk, take in a park. Nice flask of tea and the paper. Smell the flowers. Say hello to an old person.

 

[fela fan]

taffboy makes the most sense on this thread.

For me there are only two classes, and until we get this banged into our heads, those with the extreme money and power will continue to fuck with the rest of us.

It's the peoples vs the leaders. Just the two classes. Of course, in britain, the fight between middle class and working class is just fine with the criminals running the country.

The whole bollocks on class stuff in britain is that those who are not in the upper echelon are fighting amongst themselves. It's the wrong fight. It always has been.

If we fought the right fight, there'd be less selfishness, and perhaps, just perhaps less consumerism.

Well, maybe the latter mightn't happen...

 

[simon foster]

Why would your council-employed accountant on £80,000, a brand new Merc, an Audi for the wife, 4 beds semi and a villa in Spain even consider 'fighting' the 'leaders' alongside your council-employed binman on £16,000, a second hand Escort, a Fiesta for the wife, a 2 bed terrace and 2 weeks in Kos?

 

[fela fan]

Why would your council-employed accountant on £80,000, a brand new Merc, an Audi for the wife, 4 beds semi and a villa in Spain even consider 'fighting' the 'leaders' alongside your council-employed binman on £16,000, a second hand Escort, a Fiesta for the wife, a 2 bed terrace and 2 weeks in Kos?

It's a good question, and runs to the heart of why the status quo remains. That the criminal class, aka the leaders, continue to exploit the rest of us.

But until we find a way of uniting against the gangsters that run our countries all over the world, then the crimes will continue.

But to try and answer your question, if both of those examples you site were able to see beyond their own noses, if they were both able to visit the notion of compassion over and above the notion of selfishness, then we might start to make headway.

Either way, it's all bollocks until we can all see the leaders for the criminals that they are.

 

[simon foster]

It's a good question, and runs to the heart of why the status quo remains. That the criminal class, aka the leaders, continue to exploit the rest of us.

But until we find a way of uniting against the gangsters that run our countries all over the world, then the crimes will continue.

But to try and answer your question, if both of those examples you site were able to see beyond their own noses, if they were both able to visit the notion of compassion over and above the notion of selfishness, then we might start to make headway.

Either way, it's all bollocks until we can all see the leaders for the criminals that they are.

But what do both parties, in particular the accountant, stand to gain by 'uniting against the gangsters'? They both seem fairly okay in their situations - better than living in some Third World hell-hole, for example.

 

[fela fan]

Why would your council-employed accountant on £80,000, a brand new Merc, an Audi for the wife, 4 beds semi and a villa in Spain even consider 'fighting' the 'leaders' alongside your council-employed binman on £16,000, a second hand Escort, a Fiesta for the wife, a 2 bed terrace and 2 weeks in Kos?

And if a soundbite answer is acceptable in a soundbite era:

debt. The shared experience of debt as the guide to one's life. Which is, at every angle you look at it, the thief of freedom.

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

It's about the working class having the confidence to fight for themselves at the end of the day. And they are not lower class. Which btw, says a lot about where you are in the hierarchy?

Good point MC5
I've always used the term lower class .Your right its a negative statement.

 

[simon foster]

And if a soundbite answer is acceptable in a soundbite era:

debt. The shared experience of debt as the guide to one's life. Which is, at every angle you look at it, the thief of freedom.

What do you mean by 'freedom'?

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

Perhaps what is needed is re-education camps run by people like you, who so obviously have the best interests of the working class at heart.

I'm confused just like everyone else

 

[fela fan]

But what do both parties, in particular the accountant, stand to gain by 'uniting against the gangsters'? They both seem fairly okay in their situations - better than living in some Third World hell-hole, for example.

According to the rules of the accountant, nothing mate. And if we're happy to have an army of accountants running our world, then my point is negated.

But, and it's a big but, there are plenty of folk in third world 'hell-hole' countries who enjoy life more than both of your examples. At least according to indices other than the pound or dollar or baht bill.

Both of your examples describe people who have forfeited their innate freedom to the iniquity of debt. This is the ultimate failure of rampant capitalism, and this failure includes the inability to even see the problem.

 

[Brainaddict]

But what do both parties, in particular the accountant, stand to gain by 'uniting against the gangsters'? They both seem fairly okay in their situations - better than living in some Third World hell-hole, for example.

Yes, I think that anyone who has enough to eat, a roof over their heads and a bit of leisure time/money, and who can safely assume that they will still have that next year, has some interest in maintaining the status quo (though not as much as the capitalist it is true). While those who don't have that security have a greater interest in challenging the status quo. This puts most of the working class in this country on the other side of the line to, say, most of the working/agrarian class in Rwanda or wherever.

 

[fela fan]

What do you mean by 'freedom'?

That would of course need a thread of its own.

But think about it, in the context, come up with your own definition!

 

[simon foster]

But, and it's a big but, there are plenty of folk in third world 'hell-hole' countries who enjoy life more than both of your examples. At least according to indices other than the pound or dollar or baht bill.
.

If the Third World peasants are so happy, what are you moaning about? It's a win-win situation!

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

What does everyone on this thread work as? I'd like to contribute, but only on a basis of knowing who are what and when as you were.

I work as a voluntry worker{trying to get taken on full time} in a community gym .The clients are former addicts,people recovering from mental illness etc
and people recovering from physical disabilities etc.

 

[simon foster]

That would of course need a thread of its own.

But think about it, in the context, come up with your own definition!

Can't be arsed. You do it for me, you sound like a clever chap.

 

[fela fan]

Yes, I think that anyone who has enough to eat, a roof over their heads and a bit of leisure time/money, and who can safely assume that they will still have that next year, has some interest in maintaining the status quo (though not as much as the capitalist it is true). While those who don't have that security have a greater interest in challenging the status quo. This puts most of the working class in this country on the other side of the line to, say, most of the working/agrarian class in Rwanda or wherever.

This post hints at the responsibilities and who should bear them.

Those fighting for their next meal can rightfully be exempt from fighting the criminal class.

Those who have no fear of where their next meal is coming from can choose one of two paths, unlike the first group who have no real choice at all.

Then can turn inwards, become selfish.

Or they can do the bidding of the law of existence and display compassion towards those less well-off than themselves, eliminate selfishness, and fight for those below them, rather than accept the criminal actions of those above them.

 

[simon foster]

Those who have no fear of where their next meal is coming from can choose one of two paths, unlike the first group who have no real choice at all.

I've a nice leg of lamb in the freezer, half price from Sainsbury's. Do I choose the path of butterflying it and barbecuing with a Greek marinade, or the path of dicing up the meat and stewing it in a Moroccan-style tagine?

Decisions decisions.

 

[fela fan]

Can't be arsed. You do it for me, you sound like a clever chap.

No, you do it for yourself. Laziness is a wonderful concept, granted, but on this particular aspect of life, i'm challenging you to drop it for just one minute...

 

[fela fan]

I've a nice leg of lamb in the freezer, half price from Sainsbury's. Do I choose the path of butterflying it and barbecuing with a Greek marinade, or the path of dicing up the meat and stewing it in a Moroccan-style tagine?

Decisions decisions.

Unfortunately this and your last post i'm having problems understanding the meaning you're trying to convey. So i can't really reply.

 

[simon foster]

No, you do it for yourself. Laziness is a wonderful concept, granted, but on this particular aspect of life, i'm challenging you to drop it for just one minute...

No, still can't be bothered, sorry.

 

[simon foster]

Unfortunately this and your last post i'm having problems understanding the meaning you're trying to convey. So i can't really reply.

I wasn't considering letting you decide how to cook my leg of lamb. Oddball.

 

[fela fan]

No, still can't be bothered, sorry.

Well there you go, apathy reigns.

No problems.

 

[fela fan]

I wasn't considering letting you decide how to cook my leg of lamb. Oddball.

Okay, so what was my role in it being half price then? And that you got in sainsbury's and not some other shop?

Your consistency is not looking too good at the moment simon.

 

[simon foster]

Okay, so what was my role in it being half price then? And that you got in sainsbury's and not some other shop?

Your consistency is not looking too good at the moment simon.

You're not as far as I can see a sheep farmer from New Zealand. You're some tourist enjoying a very extended holiday in Siam.

 

[fela fan]

You're not as far as I can see a sheep farmer from New Zealand. You're some tourist enjoying a very extended holiday in Siam.

That would be a 16 year holiday, and i think you're not far wrong to call it a holiday. It's why i've never left. I like holidays...

Your powers of observation are pretty impressive...

 

[simon foster]

That would be a 16 year holiday, and i think you're not far wrong to call it a holiday. It's why i've never left. I like holidays...

Your powers of observation are pretty impressive...

What do the local Siamese REALLY think about your imperialist tourism? I don't mean for you to ask your fan wallah neither.

 

[fela fan]

What do the local Siamese REALLY think about your imperialist tourism? I don't mean for you to ask your fan wallah neither.

Firstly they gave up that name for themselves nearly 70 years ago.

And if you want to know what they REALLY think about me, then i'm sure you should agree that you'd need to ask them. I hope you can speak thai.

I will add that i'm not a tourist, and nor am i in any way anything to do with imperialism. And i don't need to ask anybody to know this.