Is happiness a choice?

[max_freakout]

i dont really think happiness/contentment is a total lack of emotional response, more like a detached perspective on your emotional reactions

 

[jbob]

Utterly?

For me, yes. I'm in complete agreement with Blagsta on this.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

I think Maslow's version is better:

interesting pyramid. i think safety and belonging build self esteem. but people can have great confidence and still be unhappy?

 

[i-am-your-idea]

I think there are some people who want the attention they get if they seem unhappy. and through 'acting' unhappy to get this reaction, they become geniunely unhappy.

and theres the religous idea of holy suffering for greater rewards in heaven..

I'm trying to think of examples where unhappiness could be seen as a choice. but in both situations it seems more to do with the external situation. if you only recieve love and care from your parents if you seem down, then in a way you might try to be unhappy.. but it isnt a choice. everyones leaning out for love. if unhappiness is a way of receiving it, you could be magnetically drawn to it?

 

[jbob]

.

 

[pinkmonkey]

Yes I do think it's a choice - I remember all the goths in the Electric Ballroom dropping mdma, then trying really really hard to be miserable.
goth in electric ballroom----->

I think you can choose to be happy, but you have to really work at it to attain it. It's not easy. Don't look for it outside of yourself either. Course it's easy for me to say this - I've never suffered from clinical depression, I've no idea what it feels like to try to change that!

I don't agree with Fela though - I met someone who used to go to lots of Vipassana meditation retreats the other day. She said that being unaffected by outside influences made her really miserable. She said she felt numb and completely unaffected by anything that happened to her, but very isolated and sad as a result. She said she found it weird how everyone she was with was the same, no one reaching out to each other. Course that's just one persons experience of it, isn't it?

I don't think I'd like that personally, it sounded weird, how can you feel for others around you if they're suffering if you isolate yourself like that?

I don't think happiness is supposed to mean bouncing around like some double dropping kangaroo either, it's deeper than that.

Anyway, I reckon I'm getting there, regarding my personal happiness, I had a meeting with a financial advice company today, the honest truth is - I haven't got a pot to piss in - cannot even afford new lenses for my specs, had to leave the opticians empty handed the other day. The financial advisor was a bit surprised when he asked me how I felt about it, and my answer.......

It's a journey isn't it? I have had no end of bad luck over the last two years but I really do believe that old line about 'what doesn't break you makes you stronger'

 

[dylanredefined]

Some people like being miserable .You can chose how you react to outside stuff though.

 

[revol68]

This thread is a fucking embarassment, so much shite talked it should be in the drugs forum.

 

[CJohn]

This thread is a fucking embarassment, so much shite talked it should be in the drugs forum.

Just think 'happy thoughts' and you'll cheer up

 

[revol68]

Just think 'happy thoughts' and you'll cheer up

yeah man it's all a state of mind.

 

[weltweit]

... On the one hand, certainly I wouldn't want to have no emotional reactions at all. That would be terrible.

The point about emotional reactions is that you can take responsibility for them, you may not be able to stop them happenning and why would you but you can be responsible for them and decide how much you permit them to affect you.

On the other hand, maybe there are such things as negative emotions, anger, bitterness, and the like, and I'd be better off without them.

I think you would be better off without negativity, how does it benefit you to feel negative? would it not simply be more positive to feel more positive? seems obvious no?

But on the other hand to that, maybe when someone wrongs you should be angry with them and acknowledge and express it, and it's just false to yourself and them to try to rise above it. ? ?

The question is not should you feel anger, rather it is - is anger like a switch? is it either calm or anger or do you in fact have thousands of levels of feeling you could use rather than just anger? There is no need to react straight to anger if someone wrongs you, you can decide how to feel about it.

how about these, starting small .. getting larger

. niggle
. slight
. irritation
. annoyance
. muttering
. pacing
. anger
. shouting
. ranting
. fury
. incandescence
. rage
. smashing plates

That is just a quick 13 levels you might like to chose between if someone wrongs you, there are already 7 before you get to anger so why would you just jump to anger straight away, why not be niggled first?

Make your own list, perhaps you can think of more than I can.

It is almost a choice between digital or analogue, do you have an anger switch that switches you straight from normal to angry? (digital) or do you have a dial that can slowly ramp up, from very small beginnings, towards anger (or a long way past it) and which you yourself can chose to turn down if you think that you should.

Personally I have little time for people that cannot control their tempers, it seems to me to be a sign of someone who has not grown up. But learning to control your temper is no different from learning to control other emotions, to learn to feel them in analogue (with lots of levels) and to take responsibility for your emotions.

Is happiness a choice, I think it is, but that is also to oversimplify. People with manic depression are not normal, they are ill. People with clinical depression also are ill. Such people need medication or therapy to get back to stability, they are ill like someone with diabetes is ill. You cannot just expect someone with one of these conditions to 'snap out of it'.

Normal people can chose to be happy and take actions consistent with a happy life, by taking these actions they reinforce happy thoughts and moods. Why spend the day in a dingy bedsit when you could spend it on a sunny beach? who will be the most content, the person who stayed in the dingy bedsit or the one who relaxed on the beach?

 

[pinkmonkey]

Personally I have little time for people that cannot control their tempers, it seems to me to be a sign of someone who has not grown up. But learning to control your temper is no different from learning to control other emotions, to learn to feel them in analogue (with lots of levels) and to take responsibility for your emotions.

I don't really agree with this, this woman really lost the plot in the supermarket the other week, I mean really lost the plot, started screaming, insulting everyone, hurled her trolley accross the place. It got me thinking, what kind of state does your life have to be in that you blow your top over something so simple as a lane closure at a check out? Wish it was so simple as not being able to grow up. Ok, it's good to consider other people and be polite, etc,etc, but supressing emotions, I think it's fine to feel angry, it's fine to be affected by stuff, otherwise we'd just all be numb plastic dolls. I think you can do this and be happy, as I said before if you try and supress it, then it's gonna make you miserable anyway.

 

[boohoo]

You can chose how you react to outside stuff though.

This isn't always true - life doesn't necessary allow us to be particularly emotional people. Imagine at work, you are having a day when everything feels awful. You can just burst into tears and go home and sleep it off. Stiff upper lip and all that stuff. Many people cover up their reactions because it's not appropriate and never let things out.

 

[NoEgo]

is happiness a choice?

yes and no. i never chose to be unhappy, having spent years of my life depressed, i'd just never been taught the mental tools for happiness. once i'd had the right therapy, i could choose happiness quite easily, and it's great (provided i keep taking the pills)...

I remember a large part of my life when I was unhappy was because I spent my whole time trying to make other people happy. Release came when when I did things that made me happy and gave less shit to what other people thought of me.... in other words, I did choose to be unhappy although it was put upon me somewhat...

 

[bluestreak]

are the pills the mental tools for happiness?

No, for me, therapy and the destruction of the house of cards i called my life was -that and the resulting admission in public that i could not control my own destiny. The pills are for keeping the chemical levels balanced. One or the other wouldn't keep me working, but both together have had wonderful effects. IYSWIM.

 

[bluestreak]

This thread is a fucking embarassment, so much shite talked it should be in the drugs forum.

D'yer want a hug? Perhaps some angel wings and face paint will cheer you up?

 

[pinkmonkey]

 

[fela fan]

According to me, I suppose. I'm probably misinterpreting you, but the way I see things, to lose your passion is kind of like soul-death. And actaully, I find it quite bothersome, because I have to some extent lost my passion. Lots of things these days leave me cold, and I recognise that I don't think they should, like I've become less of a person than I used to be. maybe.

No need to lose passion! It happens though when nothing is new anymore for us. Hence routine is a killer of passion, not learning how to not respond to negative forces outside of us. Passion also i'd say is not a reaction, rather a pro-action.

Passion is great, but it's greater without its negative opposite. And just about everything in life has its opposite, both positive and negative. What i feel is that we can learn how to avoid the poles and plough down the middle. And that middle i've experienced is that all being well, you don't react positively or negatively. But the difference is you get to enjoy the one, and avoid the other impacting on you with negative energy.

Learning is an excellent way to bring passion back into your life if you need it...! Or going somewhere new.

Responding negatively to something means it sucks the energy out of you, rather than giving you energy. Since we as humans have it within us to recognise this, then act on it such that anger, jealousy, revenge, deceit and so on become these voices that we just observe, we can free ourselves from the emotional slavery!

 

[fela fan]

This is just not true. Read up on the work that Antonio Damasio has been doing. Our rational brains rely on our emotions, this is biological fact and unless you're a Vulcan it applies to you too.

Well, so far as my experiences of life go, it is true. I don't know about any biological facts, so not disputing what you say, but a biological fact is not the same as a fact.

I'm not a vulcan, and it does or does not apply to me, depending on some factors. That means that at times i do not need to identify with the voice of whatever negative emotion is telling me.

Now maybe my rational brain relies upon emotions, and it's a biological fact, but what you say is not the full story. Other parts of the brain or heart can have overriding effects.

And sorry, but my own experiences cannot be discounted by some author in some book.

 

[fela fan]

Not possible.

Possible, and certain.

 

[Jonti]

at times i do not need to identify with the voice, of whatever negative emotion, is telling me.*

Ahh, I think I understand what you're getting at here ... the idea that one can suffer without suffering, perhaps?

This can happen if there is a purpose to one's suffering, comforting a loved one in mortal extremis, for example ...

If we think like this, then we suffer with a purpose and we suffer without suffering. And able to develop a mind that’s strong and puts others welfare before our own selfish entanglements and self created problems. Then we will find we forgive, accept situations, find incredible peace.

source


* commas added to aid my own comprehension

 

[max_freakout]

interesting pyramid. i think safety and belonging build self esteem. but people can have great confidence and still be unhappy?

Can people really have great confidence and still be unhappy? Being confident is at least one reason to be happy

Maslow's pyramid wasnt really about happiness, it is called the 'hierarchy of needs', you need to fulfil the lower needs before you can progress to the higher ones, or the lower ones are more fundamental, or something like that.

Much of Maslow's work was about 'peak experiences', some versions of the pyramid include another label, above the point of the pyramid, called 'self-transcendence'

 

[max_freakout]

No, for me, therapy and the destruction of the house of cards i called my life was -that and the resulting admission in public that i could not control my own destiny. The pills are for keeping the chemical levels balanced. One or the other wouldn't keep me working, but both together have had wonderful effects. IYSWIM.

haha that is exactly what happened to me, a rude awakening that destiny is the ultimate controller, i took a different kind of pill though


to come to terms with fate you have to marry it

 

[i-am-your-idea]

haha that is exactly what happened to me, a rude awakening that destiny is the ultimate controller, i took a different kind of pill though


to come to terms with fate you have to marry it

if you cant beat em, join em!

 

[Blagsta]

Well, so far as my experiences of life go, it is true. I don't know about any biological facts, so not disputing what you say, but a biological fact is not the same as a fact.

I'm not a vulcan, and it does or does not apply to me, depending on some factors. That means that at times i do not need to identify with the voice of whatever negative emotion is telling me.

Now maybe my rational brain relies upon emotions, and it's a biological fact, but what you say is not the full story. Other parts of the brain or heart can have overriding effects.

And sorry, but my own experiences cannot be discounted by some author in some book.

We all have emotions. Our capacity for self awareness relies on this. You are not special or different.

 

[Blagsta]

Possible, and certain.

You're very deluded.

 

[Meltingpot]

No one's mentioned gratitude so far in this thread. My Mum once gave me a gratitude stone; a piece of blue lace agate, and told me to think of things to be grateful for whenever I held it in my hand. My Gran also gave me similar advice; "Count your blessings." I don't do that as often as I might, but I think it's good advice.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

No one's mentioned gratitude so far in this thread. My Mum once gave me a gratitude stone; a piece of blue lace agate, and told me to think of things to be grateful for whenever I held it in my hand. My Gran also gave me similar advice; "Count your blessings." I don't do that as often as I might, but I think it's good advice.

aw thats very sweet. i remember in infant school our teacher used to say 'never take things for granted' and i wondered at length at what 'granted' meant. i only heard it in the context of 'and the fairy granted 3 wishes'

 

[Meltingpot]

If desire were totally fulfilled then one would cease to be separate from the Other - subjectivity would dissappear. (at least as I see it)

Momentarily, but they soon reassert themselves. Pretty soon the Ferrari or turbo Porsche isn't fast enough and you feel you need to "tune it up."

I remember an interview on TV with the late pop manager Mickey Most (who managed Suzi Quatro amongst others) who had made a very large amount of money and with it built a mansion in North London which cost millions to build. He pointed to the cupola 60 feet up from the floor, and said, "I wish this room was taller."

He created exactly the house he thought would satisfy him, but found it wasn't enough.

 

[boohoo]

This thread is a fucking embarassment, so much shite talked it should be in the drugs forum.

I am feeling some anger and bitterness in the thread... Are you not happy?

D'yer want a hug? Perhaps some angel wings and face paint will cheer you up?

Group hug for revol68. Angel wings and face paints are a happy suggestion!!!