Is God an evil bastard?

[Corax]

It's people that are bastards. Blaming it on God undeservingly absolves them of responsibility.

 

[Mooncat]

It's people that are bastards. Blaming it on God undeservingly absolves them of responsibility.

 

[Casually Red]

Actually he was more of a cunt - he told Luke that you can kick fuck out of your slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong. I know ignorance of the law is no excuse but come on

Luke 12:35 48 & 47

In fairness that was according to some bloke who said someone told somebody else who later told him that God said it to Luke long after its alleged it was said.

 

[obtuseobserver]

Nah I just over simplified.

It's an abstract concept to label actions disapproved of by collective opinion in that timeframe.

So called evil acts can be viewed as good from another angle or historical distance. E.g. one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

How about the violent rapists that loved getting girls blasted on meth, taking them out for a drive and raping them while killing them... how would you argue the existence of good in that case?

http://www.mayhem.net/Crime/shermantine.html

I can cite more horrific examples but decency suggests I not do so

 

[obtuseobserver]

It's people that are bastards. Blaming it on God undeservingly absolves them of responsibility.

pretty much

however....

there is no shortage of stories in the Bible that leave one asking one's self wtf? Part of the problem is understanding the events in historical context rather than interpretting them in the context of our lives now. Another is translation. The words may be right but the original language, which I do not read, I am told is remarkably dense and loaded not only with double entendres (not exactly that but best description I could come up with) and other inferred alternatives as they relate to the use of three letter roots and the association with numbers. Further, the oral tradition is not often factored in. For my part I try to understand as best I can... which, for a Protestant, meant looking to rabbinical scholars when I hope to understand the OT not Christians. I believe so for me the rest of the argument is academic... I just want to know what the text means.

However.... back to the WTF events... there are still plenty not explained away through deeper exploration. Let's take Job. Why did God let him suffer so? Job was curious too, he asked "why." He got, "because I'm your father that's why." Symbolicly it makes sense but with reference to the degree of suffering?

There are many such stories. There is a movement in Christianity that seeks to deny or do away with these examples because they are thought to be embarassing.. But, when we start cherry picking text doesn't it lose its authority? If it loses authority what value does it have?

ramble ramble ramble

 

[phildwyer]

Which books and have all xtians read them?

The Bible itself is a good place to start. Jesus says "I am the end of the law (i.e. of the Old T)." Then we have Peter's dispute with Paul over whether Xtians need to obey the Jewish law.

Christianity was originally a reform movement within Judaism, and the Old T is what it sought to reform. Pretty much any Christian will know this. That's why they eat pork etc.

 

[obtuseobserver]

The Bible itself is a good place to start. Jesus says "I am the end of the law (i.e. of the Old T)." Then we have Peter's dispute with Paul over whether Xtians need to obey the Jewish law.

Christianity was originally a reform movement within Judaism, and the Old T is what it sought to reform. Pretty much any Christian will know this. That's why they eat pork etc.

bacon tastes good

 

[Casually Red]

We RCs are wisely taught to pretty much ignore the bible , especially that Old Testament bollocks.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Regarding the Old Testament: the entire point and raison d'etre of Christianity is to abolish its literal sense and replace it with a series of figurative senses..

Why is the Old Testament included in modern Christian bibles?

 

[Greebo]

Why is the Old Testament included in modern Christian bibles?

Because the OT includes the 10 commandments, but the NT doesn't? It makes me laugh when Christians talk scathingly about supermarket pick'n' mix spirituality, but they mainly ignore Leviticus & Deuteronomy while more or less keeping the 10.

Don't get me wrong, we're all imperfect & flawed human beings, but you can at least try to recognise your inconsistencies.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Because the OT includes the 10 commandments, but the NT doesn't? It makes me laugh when Christians talk scathingly about supermarket pick'n' mix spirituality, but they mainly ignore Leviticus & Deuteronomy while more or less keeping the 10.

Don't get me wrong, we're all imperfect & flawed human beings, but you can at least try to recognise your inconsistencies.

Well then keep Exodus, and turf the book of Revelations.

 

[Casually Red]

Well then keep Exodus, and turf the book of Revelations.

the book of revelations is the best bit . All that other stuff the best they can do with it is make a few camp musicals with Jason Donovan or something . Book of revelations is totally off the wall and has spawned numerous heavy metal tributes .

 

[obtuseobserver]

We RCs are wisely taught to pretty much ignore the bible , especially that Old Testament bollocks.

Lutherans read a passage from the OT each service as part of the liturgy. I thought RCs did too?

In any event, you, in your next post, hit on that notion I mentioned above. Many people try to ignore or otherwise explain away large segments of the OT. IMO based on no good reason other than their squeamishness in addressing the text.

However, the story of Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob are pretty well known and commonly read. We read a Pslam nearly every Sunday. Etc etc... Leviticus and Deuteronomy? Another story as you said.

 

[Lock&Light]

Personally I only believe the Gospel According to St. Thomas. At least, some of it.

 

[Corax]

There are a lot of christians (and quakers) who rate their own personal experience of God as far more important than a book that was, after all, written by humans. Not to mention selectively compiled and edited by the church.

Nothing wrong with using it as a source of inspiration/guidance/motivation, but not to treat it as somehow infallible. Those that believe that the text of the Bible is literally the uncorrupted word of God are probably largely the sort that don't believe in evolution. In this country, that's definitely a minority.

 

[Mooncat]

The Bible itself is a good place to start. Jesus says "I am the end of the law (i.e. of the Old T)." Then we have Peter's dispute with Paul over whether Xtians need to obey the Jewish law.

Christianity was originally a reform movement within Judaism, and the Old T is what it sought to reform. Pretty much any Christian will know this. That's why they eat pork etc.

How do they know this? There are some pretty grizzly things talked about in favourable, gloating terms in the New Testament yet you claim that all true Scotsmen xtians know that - just from reading the bible - that things like genocide are to be condemned? Explain