Is English cricket racist?

[jiggajagga]

jiggajigga, what's your take on the D'Oliviera affair?

Wonderful cricketter and a gentleman. We were lucky to have him.
The sad affair of SA and apartheid which led to the uproar will never be forgotten but this much I do know, Basil played as much a part in the downfall of the nazis in SA as much as Mandella in my opinion.

I do wish posters ( can you hear me butchers) would think before posting bile.
I am genuinely concerned that a great game which is coming back to the fore after a long time in the wilderness may be accused by some of racism. After all one only has to look on the football, athletics and rugby fields to see there are no race undertones.
I am not suggesting there IS racism in cricket, just that it struck me as a little odd that there were no West indian or asian english on the side and It then got me to thinking just how long it has been since we have seen anyone other than white english on our team!

 

[jiggajagga]

Possibly because of the decline in cricket in state schools.

I hadn't thought of that Donna!.
Thanks for a good answer rather than childish prattle by those such as....you know!

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I bring up the education issue because a sizeable proportion of English professional cricketers are public school educated, something which often enables you to receive a degree of coaching (and a standard of facilities) which are enormously, incomparably better than anything likely to be on offer at a comprehensive school. Few enough white kids go to public schools, but I would guess that the proportion was rather lower among black people.

 

[jiggajagga]

Name somebody you think is good enough then. If you're going to ask these questions, you could make it look like you've done some research.

If there is no one good enough surely the question should be Why is there no one good enough?.......racism in schools perhaps?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

If there is no one good enough surely the question should be Why is there no one good enough?.......racism in schools perhaps?

What's your reason for saying so?

 

[butchersapron]

I do wish posters ( can you hear me butchers) would think before posting bile.

I hear you old man, but i reject your argument. I don't think it has a leg to stand on. I wonder why you decided to put it. I think it's insulting to so many people that it's not worth taking seriously.

And i wonder what you're not concerned about overepresntation of black/asian people in other sports. I'm not? Wha

 

[jiggajagga]

What's your reason for saying so?

Lets take tennis for example. Every year we have Henmania when 'our tim' does his bit for Britain. Are you telling me that he is the best tennis player in Britain or could it be that there may be a poor white kid ( or black kid) living in the back streets of a council sink estate who, given the same life chances as Tim, would win us that 'title' we demand every year?
Isn't inequality in sport a kind of racism without a colour?

 

[CyberRose]

If there is no one good enough surely the question should be Why is there no one good enough?.......racism in schools perhaps?

Jesus Christ man pull yourself together ffs!!!

What kind of person watches a sport for the sole reason of looking for shit to say about it. You seem fucking obsessed by racism to the extent you are now inventing racism in schools as a reason why there are no ethnics in the cricket team!

You need to get a life mate

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Lets take tennis for example. Every year we have Henmania when 'our tim' does his bit for Britain. Are you telling me that he is the best tennis player in Britain or could it be that there may be a poor white kid ( or black kid) living in the back streets of a council sink estate who, given the same life chances as Tim, would win us that 'title' we demand every year?
Isn't inequality in sport a kind of racism without a colour?

What's that got to do with the contention which you made and for which I asked your reasons?

 

[butchersapron]

Lets take tennis for example. Every year we have Henmania when 'our tim' does his bit for Britain. Are you telling me that he is the best tennis player in Britain or could it be that there may be a poor white kid ( or black kid) living in the back streets of a council sink estate who, given the same life chances as Tim, would win us that 'title' we demand every year?
Isn't inequality in sport a kind of racism without a colour?

There's a point if you could be bothered to plunge for it in that post.

 

[CyberRose]

Lets take tennis for example. Every year we have Henmania when 'our tim' does his bit for Britain. Are you telling me that he is the best tennis player in Britain or could it be that there may be a poor white kid ( or black kid) living in the back streets of a council sink estate who, given the same life chances as Tim, would win us that 'title' we demand every year?
Isn't inequality in sport a kind of racism without a colour?

Ok stop it now your making me piss myself!!

Inequality in sport "racism without colour"?!?!

So now cos tennis is a posh boys sport that somehow translates into your head as racist? Jeez!

Do you know any ethnics who are good at tennis? Or simply just anyone who's good at tennis, please?

 

[Jazzz]

Wonderful cricketter and a gentleman. We were lucky to have him.
The sad affair of SA and apartheid which led to the uproar will never be forgotten but this much I do know, Basil played as much a part in the downfall of the nazis in SA as much as Mandella in my opinion.

I do wish posters ( can you hear me butchers) would think before posting bile.
I am genuinely concerned that a great game which is coming back to the fore after a long time in the wilderness may be accused by some of racism. After all one only has to look on the football, athletics and rugby fields to see there are no race undertones.
I am not suggesting there IS racism in cricket, just that it struck me as a little odd that there were no West indian or asian english on the side and It then got me to thinking just how long it has been since we have seen anyone other than white english on our team!

I'm glad to hear your opinion of D'Oliveira which I share. I wouldn't say English cricket has been without its problems but in the past its certainly played a role in breaking boundaries, notably with D'Oliviera - plenty of shenanigans there, there was a great documentary about it recently - but also further back with players like Constantine, and writer CLR James.

Are there some racists still in the game? I reckon so. I think it's less of a problem now though. I hear Devon Malcolm got appalling treatment while he was playing tests not too long ago, and guess that wasn't unrelated to his skin.

 

[butchersapron]

Where and when. Which tests?

('I hear' indeed?)

 

[peppery]

There's probably less racism at test level than anywhere else in the game. The reason why there aren't any black/asian players in the England team is because there probably aren't any good enough players at the moment. The England team has never worried too much about colour or nationality. The best captain they had in ages was Nasser Hussain.

However if there are any county cricket fans out there can they see any good young black/Asian players on the horizon?

 

[peppery]

Do you know any ethnics who are good at tennis? Or simply just anyone who's good at tennis, please?

Whats a Fucking ethnic then? Are you fucking BNP becasue thats the term they use to describe Blacks and Asians!!!!!!

 

[tangerinedream]

There's probably less racism at test level than anywhere else in the game. The reason why there aren't any black/asian players in the England team is because there probably aren't any good enough players at the moment. The England team has never worried too much about colour or nationality. The best captain they had in ages was Nasser Hussain.

However if there are any county cricket fans out there can they see any good young black/Asian players on the horizon?

Sahid Mahmood at Lancs was quite well thought of for a while. Don't think he's exactly set the world on fire this year. However the aboriginal Andrew Symonds has. Unfortunately the rest of the Lancs side havn't been able to fan the fan the flames very well.

 

[tangerinedream]

Are there some racists still in the game? I reckon so. I think it's less of a problem now though. I hear Devon Malcolm got appalling treatment while he was playing tests not too long ago, and guess that wasn't unrelated to his skin.

What appaling treatment do you mean? From the selectors or abuse?

 

[Jazzz]

What appaling treatment do you mean? From the selectors or abuse?

I don't know too much about it to be honest, but apparently he was given a really hard time by the management, Raymond Illingworth in particular. They were insisting on remodelling his whole action. He tried but couldn't do it. I think (not entirely sure) he was left out of the side rather than be allowed to just bowl the way he always could, and the way he was picked for. Incidentally I saw a documentary which featured an Indian umpire who had the temerity to give Illingworth out LBW in his playing days and never umpired again.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't know too much about it to be honest, but apparently he was given a really hard time by the management, Raymond Illingworth in particular. They were insisting on remodelling his whole action. He tried but couldn't do it. I think (not entirely sure) he was left out of the side rather than be allowed to just bowl the way he always could, and the way he was picked for. Incidentally I saw a documentary which featured an Indian umpire who had the temerity to give Illingworth out LBW in his playing days and never umpired again.

That's disgusting DJ - you're calling coaching racism? You have no proof at all?

Edit: btw are you saying that Ray Illingworth had the power to get rid of umpires and that he did so on the basis of their colour? And you dare talk about libel?

 

[tangerinedream]

I don't know too much about it to be honest, but apparently he was given a really hard time by the management, Raymond Illingworth in particular. They were insisting on remodelling his whole action. He tried but couldn't do it. I think (not entirely sure) he was left out of the side rather than be allowed to just bowl the way he always could, and the way he was picked for. Incidentally I saw a documentary which featured an Indian umpire who had the temerity to give Illingworth out LBW in his playing days and never umpired again.

Atherton talks a bit about that in his book. Illy comes across as an interfering know it all who didn't actually do much except lie on the sun bed. Atherton definately thinks Malcom's ability was wasted and reckons he got messed about to the point where he didn't really want to play for England.

Malcom had a lot of very poor games for england as well as good ones. He could look like a world beater one test then truly dreadful the next.

 

[butchersapron]

Atherton talks a bit about that in his book. Illy comes across as an interfering know it all who didn't actually do much except lie on the sun bed. Atherton definately thinks Malcom's ability was wasted and reckons he got messed about to the point where he didn't really want to play for England.

Not racism though is it? Which is the meat of DJs post.

 

[butchersapron]

"Incidentally I saw a documentary which featured an Indian umpire who had the temerity to give Illingworth out LBW in his playing days and never umpired again."

What are you saying here DJ?

 

[tangerinedream]

Not racism though is it? Which is the meat of DJs post.

no it's not as far as I can see. (which is why i added the edit)

 

[butchersapron]

no it's not as far as I can see. (which is why i added the edit)

Good man

 

[Jazzz]

"Incidentally I saw a documentary which featured an Indian umpire who had the temerity to give Illingworth out LBW in his playing days and never umpired again."

What are you saying here DJ?

I'm saying exactly what I said. I don't remember the name of the umpire in question. According to the umpire (one of very few non-English umpires at the time), upon giving Illingworth out LBW he received the most extraordinary tirade of abuse which included a threat to kick him out of the scene. I think Illingworth was England captain at the time - this was a while back. The guy never umpired again and started coaching instead. The documentary quizzed Illingworth about the incident and he said he couldn't remember it, rather sheepishly.

 

[butchersapron]

And the same applies to you?

Don't waste our fucking time with snide accusations if you not got the evidence or the balls to back it up.

I used to respect you.

 

[tangerinedream]

I think what Atherton says basically is - a lot of players suffered from interfering with their actions and batting style. Which doesn't make sense because Illingworth was demanding a big say in who got selected. If you get picked you should be good enough without needing a Ray Illingworth masterclass.

He cites Malcom as a prime example of this tinkering and as a player that got dropped, then picked, then dropped. He also uses Mark Lathwell and many others as an example of a player who got thrown in and left out again, was good enough one minute, then useless the next.

He also talks about the South africa tour, when Malcom was the only black player, and Mandela made a huge fuss of him. Then Malcom went out and bowled insipid rubbish all tour, completely failing to live up to his billing as "the destroyer" It is here he comes to the conclusion that Malcom has lost the fearlessness from constantly being told he has to change this and that and stop bowling wild deliveries.

What we have seen since then (and what Atherton wanted) is the policy of selecting players for a length of time and allowing them to play there own game largely and coaching being a kind of 'ticking over and polishing' thing.

I don't think there is any acusation of racism towards Illy, more that he's an interfering big headed know it all who tried to coach Malcom in one way that was entirely wrong. He's tried to coach a genuine pace bowler like a yorkshire league medium pacer, which is stupid, but not racist.

 

[CyberRose]

Whats a Fucking ethnic then? Are you fucking BNP becasue thats the term they use to describe Blacks and Asians!!!!!!

Ethnic is short for ethnic minority because I cant be arsed to type ethnic minority. I've never heard anyone say that was racist before except you

 

[butchersapron]

It is mate, so stop it. And you knew.

 

[CyberRose]

It is mate, so stop it. And you knew.

I've always used that on here an no-one's ever said anything. Sorry if it is but this is the first I've heard about it