Is Conceptualisation a safe house?

[Robster970]

Get some Kid606 down your lugs

The Action Packed Mentallist Brings You the Fucking Jams and Kill Sound Before Sound Kills You are my two favourites of his. Listen with headphones as most computer speakers just make this kind of music sound even worse

cheers chap. right back to conceptualism.

 

[zenie]

Mindless bullshit is not conceptual.

Who decides whether it's bullshit or not?

 

[Firky]

Who decides whether it's bullshit or not?

That's like saying, "I know you are, but what am I?"

You could apply your statement to anything but we as humans generally can spot when something is bullshit init. Like the way banksy goes on (don't get me started).

 

[zenie]

That's like saying, "I know you are, but what I?"

??

 

[pengaleng]

Conceptualism has been overdone by way to many people who are crap artists. It's out of fashion and dying fast. We're bored with it.

too true.

 

[rutabowa]

Shitmat, DJ Rupture, Droon, err... just look up glitch, gabba, speedcore and breakcore - oh and kid hideous, there's loads. You should here some of the stuff I listen too. 220bpm of squelchy bass with high hats that would make your eyes bleed

none of that's noise though, it's all far too structured. it's just harsh sounding dance music. the Aphex Twin? he is a million miles from being "noise". noise is people like merzbow, and a load of other people you can find in the basement of the Foundry from time to time.
ps the people i know who make it say they are musicians rather than noise artists.

 

[Robster970]

reports of conceptual art's death are grossly exagerated. it keeps getting taught as the norm. i agree that it's not fashionable any longer but there ain't too much going on in this country imho to reverse the trend right now.

 

[Firky]

Do you look like a what?

??

What I mean is your statement is like one of those ones where you can't argue with it because you're right but at the same time inherently flawed. As there is an universl truth that we as humans can usually tell when something is incorporeal. Very much a metaphysical thing.

You can't be beautiful.. you can only participate in it. And be universally recognised as being beautiful. A Work of art can participate in this metaphysical abstract very much the same way. (Only it doesn't fade... so maybe its an absolute?)

 

[pengaleng]

none of that's noise though, it's all far too structured. it's just harsh sounding dance music. the Aphex Twin? he is a million miles from being "noise". noise is people like merzbow, and a load of other people you can find in the basement of the Foundry from time to time.
ps the people i know who make it say they are musicians rather than noise artists.

so ambient works is structured harsh sounding dance music then?

 

[zenie]

You could apply your statement to anything but we as humans generally can spot when something is bullshit init. Like the way banksy goes on (don't get me started).

That's not the same thing, that's a matter of taste and opinion.

You cant speak for everyone when you say 'that's bullshit' you can say 'I think that's bullshit' they're two different things.

 

[zenie]

reports of conceptual art's death are grossly exagerated. it keeps getting taught as the norm. i agree that it's not fashionable any longer but there ain't too much going on in this country imho to reverse the trend right now.

Exactly what comes after conceptualism?

Pretty pictures and 'craftsmanship' are all well or good but they don't make you feel anything, or make any kind of statement. IMO

 

[Firky]

none of that's noise though, it's all far too structured. it's just harsh sounding dance music. the Aphex Twin? he is a million miles from being "noise". noise is people like merzbow, and a load of other people you can find in the basement of the Foundry from time to time.
ps the people i know who make it say they are musicians rather than noise artists.

You have heard of them because they are structured, but if you click around on soundclick or hang around WATM you'll come across artists (signed) who are just noise. If I told you their names you may be able to find an obscure reference to it on usenet but that's about it. See if you can get your paws on David McArthur's 'Londenderry in a Bottle', it is just white noise. Literally static!

 

[rutabowa]

so ambient works is structured harsh sounding dance music then?

no, i didn't say it was, i just said it's definitely not "noise". it is pretty accessible compared to a lot of stuff being made too.

 

[pengaleng]

Pretty pictures and 'craftsmanship' are all well or good but they don't make you feel anything, or make any kind of statement. IMO

by that defenition though you are basically saying that every piece of work that doesn't have a 'meaning' is therefore redundant. Why shouldn't a piece without a concept make you feel anything?

 

[Stanley Edwards]

reports of conceptual art's death are grossly exagerated...

I think it's reached saturation point or, even stagnated. Not saying that it will disappear or, be forgotten. It's dead in the sense it has nothing new to offer.

As for other stuff, other schools of painting have developed unnoticed whilst everyone was looking at Conceptualism. Photography is far more popular and more unfluential than ever - something good and new could emerge from photography.

And, then there's Totalism of course

 

[pengaleng]

no, i didn't say it was, i just said it's definitely not "noise". it is pretty accessible compared to a lot of stuff being made too.

oh I dunno, I've got loadsa merzbow...

 

[Firky]

That's not the same thing, that's a matter of taste and opinion.

You cant speak for everyone when you say 'that's bullshit' you can say 'I think that's bullshit' they're two different things.

Well that is the entire premise of tp's argument. When 'everyone' knows its bullshit sometimes. Apart from a few people like Freedman who see £££ so go along with it, stick it in a gallery, and because it is a Freedman it must be good.

 

[Stanley Edwards]

...

Pretty pictures and 'craftsmanship' are all well or good but they don't make you feel anything, or make any kind of statement. IMO

You're soulless

Get yourself down to Tate Britain with an open mind and open soul.

 

[rutabowa]

You have heard of them because they are structured, but if you click around on soundclick or hang around WATM you'll come across artists (signed) who are just noise. If I told you their names you may be able to find an obscure reference to it on usenet but that's about it. See if you can get your paws on David McArthur's 'Londenderry in a Bottle', it is just white noise. Literally static!

yes i know... i was just pointing out who the artists you orignally mentioned don't really fit into this discussion, they are too mainstream-sounding, they just sell records in the popular music scene.

 

[Firky]

Saatchi could fish out a turd from a pub toilet, say some inner-school kid did it as a statment of somkind, and he's the next greatest thing and people would agree with him.

 

[zenie]

by that defenition though you are basically saying that every piece of work that doesn't have a 'meaning' is therefore redundant. Why shouldn't a piece without a concept make you feel anything?

No thats not what I'm saying at all you're making presumptions.

I'm saying that without concept and thought what is art?

 

[rutabowa]

oh I dunno, I've got loadsa merzbow...

i don't understand how that's a reply to what i said!

 

[zenie]

You're soulless

Get yourself down to Tate Britain with an open mind and open soul.

No, I can appreciate classical art, however that is the past and this is the future.

As for your comments on Totalism, it's hardly making a breakthrough is it?

 

[Firky]

Pretty pictures and 'craftsmanship' are all well or good but they don't make you feel anything, or make any kind of statement. IMO

So how do you recognise a good concept when you see it? The person could have just thought it looked cool and that was it.

 

[Firky]

Pretty pictures and 'craftsmanship' are all well or good but they don't make you feel anything, or make any kind of statement. IMO

So how do you recognise a good concept when you see it? The person could have just thought it looked cool and that was it.

 

[zenie]

Saatchi could fish out a turd from a pub toilet, say some inner-school kid did it as a statment of somkind, and he's the next greatest thing and people would agree with him.

Correction : Some people would agree with him

 

[Stanley Edwards]

...

As for your comments on Totalism, it's hardly making a breakthrough is it?

Give it time

 

[zenie]

So how do you recognise a good concept when you see it? The person could have just thought it looked cool and that was it.

Which is what half of art is - make first think of a concept later!

 

[pengaleng]

No thats not what I'm saying at all you're making presumptions.

I'm saying that without concept and thought what is art?

well maybe if you explained yourself a bit better we'd know what you were getting at instead of having to do guesswork to figure it out.

you said:

Pretty pictures and 'craftsmanship' are all well or good but they don't make you feel anything, or make any kind of statement. IMO

well why don't they? why doesn't that work make you feel anything? why doesn't it make a statement?

 

[Firky]

No thats not what I'm saying at all you're making presumptions.

I'm saying that without concept and thought what is art?

I love this threads

Well you're under the assumption that art requires concept and is a prerequisite. There was a thing about Augustus Welby Northmore Pugin on TV the other night, very famous designer and theorist of design. He died at 40. But his art wasn't a concept it was just a style he was obsessed with.

This is some of his stuff