Is climate change just a modern expression of christianity?

[Dillinger4]

*yawn*

This forum has been ruined by max and his rubbish.

I know how this thread is going to go.

Max - Repeats his idea over and over again without a clue about any of things he is talking about.
I-am-your-idea - Parrots it
Fela Fan - Butts in without a clue
Demosthenes - I am Jesus LOL
Everyone else - Tries to explain different aspects, reasons why max could be wrong, etc, gets it thrown back in their face, told they are closed minds and that they are wrong and max is right.

 

[d.a.s.h]

You might as well ask: 'Are Fire Brigade campaigns for smoke alarms a modern expression of Christianity?'

In fact, it would be a better question, since (a) having a smoke alarm is more clearly a matter of individual responsibility and (b) the cause of death involves fire. Who thinks global warming will actually kill people by burning them?

So a better question, but only in the sense that it would be slightly less absurd. Which makes the original question very absurd.

 

[bluestreak]

it says that eternal hellfire is a real place in the (sinner's) future, and so does climate change

Yes, but it also says that sinners will be forgiven.

Are you calling my vicar a liar?

 

[Crispy]

*yawn*

This forum has been ruined by max and his rubbish.

No crossthread crap please.

 

[cesare]

Supreme egoism, or something else? (@ Dillinger)

 

[Dillinger4]

I am not going to bother with this nonnsense, myself.

 

[butchersapron]

no it wasnt

from the OP:


= its your responsibility

"you are going to die in agonising, anxious hellfire, and it's YOUR fault, and there's nothing you can do about it!!! mwahahahhahahaha"

Note the bold. Also, not there's no notion of responsibility attached to the fact that people can do nothing about it (according to your OP anyway). They cannot do anything to stop earthquakes either. That doesn't make it a matter of personal responsibility.

Hang on, you admit the OP was wrong, try to put it better then defend the wording of the orignal post. Which one is it?

 

[i-am-your-idea]

We could only be to blame if we have free will. If we don't have free will, we are innocent. Whats happened so far, including the actions of people trying to heal the planet, is all part of human nature.

 

[kyser_soze]

Then your hypothisis fails at the most fundamental level

Like everything Max says really.

Max, you're confusing the response of some environmentalists (many of whom are also Xtians and will therefore be predisposed to think in a certain way anyway) with the physical actuality of AGC.

Climate change is a physical process happening to the Earth (and one of those 'reality' things you have so many issues with); environmentalism is an intellectual and dynamic response to this process, and as with anything cursed with the suffix '-ism' it can be said that some of it's practitioners see it in similar terms to another -ism (in this case a the-ism, Xtianity).

Sir David King calls what you're talking about the 'hair shirt' end of the environmental movement, another Xtian reference to those who wore hair shirts in penitence for sins. It's entirely possible to see it in terms of action-reaction that don't involved shouting about our fiery demise.

The other thing worth mentioning is that many of the environmentalists who take the view that we're discussing also link to concepts like Gaia-worship and other demi-theistisc behaviour - but as we live in a society grounded in Greco-Judeo-Xtian thinking, it's expressed in a way that conforms to that template.

 

[max_freakout]

Yes, but it also says that sinners will be forgiven.

Are you calling my vicar a liar?

then who gets to spend eternity in hell?

 

[max_freakout]

"you are going to die in agonising, anxious hellfire, and it's YOUR fault, and there's nothing you can do about it!!! mwahahahhahahaha"

Note the bold. Also, not there's no notion of responsibility attached to the fact that people can do nothing about it (according to your OP anyway). They cannot do anything to stop earthquakes either. That doesn't make it a matter of personal responsibility.

Hang on, you admit the OP was wrong, try to put it better then defend the wording of the orignal post. Which one is it?

you can avoid hell by being good, and (as an individual) you can avoid climate change by eating tofu and cycling

 

[max_freakout]

Climate change is a physical process happening to the Earth (and one of those 'reality' things you have so many issues with); environmentalism is an intellectual and dynamic response to this process, and as with anything cursed with the suffix '-ism' it can be said that some of it's practitioners see it in similar terms to another -ism (in this case a the-ism, Xtianity).

as i have said before, i am not referring to the physical process of climate change at all, but rather to the idea that humans are responsible for it

 

[butchersapron]

the idea?

 

[max_freakout]

We could only be to blame if we have free will. If we don't have free will, we are innocent. Whats happened so far, including the actions of people trying to heal the planet, is all part of human nature.

so are you saying that if there is no free-will, then humans do not cause climate change?

 

[bluestreak]

then who gets to spend eternity in hell?

Depends on who you ask, eh, or on how you interpret various bits of biblical whojamama.

If you're a catholic, you can fuck children and punch grannies all day long, but provided you say you're sorry before you die you're going to heaven. Funny old afterlife, innit.

Anyhoo, give it up eh?

 

[max_freakout]

the idea?

which is frequently mentioned all over the place


if we werent so lazy and greedy to use cars etc, then there wouldnt be climate change

 

[Crispy]

humans are responsible for it

oops, there you go again, putting your answer in your question.
humans. Humans plural.

 

[d.a.s.h]

you can avoid climate change by eating tofu and cycling

oh fuck off!

 

[max_freakout]

Depends on who you ask, eh, or on how you interpret various bits of biblical whojamama.

either way, the bible clearly says that hell is a hot place, and that it is real, and that it comes at the end

 

[Crispy]

yep that's right. and how do you avoid hell?

 

[bluestreak]

apart from the bits that say it is a cold and dark place for fallen angels and make no mention of humans. or the bit that say it's where all souls go after life but some are redeemed whilst others go to purgatory, or any of the other bits.

 

[max_freakout]

humans. Humans plural.

humans = each human individual

the more oil you burn, the more responsible for climate change you are


if only 5 people were using fossil fuels, and everyone else in the world just ate tofu, and climate change happened, you would only attribute it to the 5 people, not to all the others people who didnt contribute to it

therefore each individual who lives a modern lifestyle is to some extent, personally responsible for the weather in the future, just as christianity insists that you are personally responsible for the future

 

[bluestreak]

therefore each individual who lives a modern lifestyle is to some extent, personally responsible for the weather in the future, just as christianity insists that you are personally responsible for the future

OK, let's run with that one.

Now, does that therefore automatically mean that climate change is falsehood and some sort of social prohibition meme?

 

[max_freakout]

apart from the bits that say it is a cold and dark place for fallen angels and make no mention of humans. or the bit that say it's where all souls go after life but some are redeemed whilst others go to purgatory, or any of the other bits.

the bible does not directly mention purgatory, it was invented much later than the bible.

The bible does however mention a hot fiery hell where sinners go at the end of life for eternity

 

[max_freakout]

Now, does that therefore automatically mean that climate change is falsehood and some sort of social prohibition meme?

i dont think so

 

[Crispy]

humans = each human individual

the more oil you burn, the more responsible for climate change you are

100% correct.

if only 5 people were using fossil fuels, and everyone else in the world just ate tofu, and climate change happened, you would only attribute it to the 5 people, not to all the others people who didnt contribute to it.

100% correct

therefore each individual who lives a modern lifestyle is to some extent, personally responsible for the weather in the future

100% correct

just as christianity insists that you are personally responsible for the future

100% fail. christianity insists that you are personally responsible for your OWN future. If global warming was like hell, then your 5 polluters in a world of tofu eaters would get warmer, while everyone else stayed the same. Obviously, this is not how it works. The world gets worse for everybody, tofu eaters and polluters alike.

Conversely, if hell was like global warming, then everybody in the world would get a 'middling' afterlife composed of bits of hell from the sinners, and bits of heaven from the saints.

 

[butchersapron]

Maxi, are you on about real climate change or just 'the idea' if it? You seem confused.

 

[max_freakout]

yep that's right. and how do you avoid hell?

by eating tofu and cycling perhaps?

Or maybe hell is inevitable and you can't avoid it? Climate change certainly seems to be

 

[bluestreak]

i dont think so

so therefore...

climate change is not a modern expression of christianity.

 

[max_freakout]

Maxi, are you on about real climate change or just 'the idea' if it? .

the idea that human individuals are personally responsible for it

i do not *feel* responsible for what the weather will be like next year, yet climate change rhetoric insists that i am