is britain literally becoming a police state?

[Poi E]

However, these laws in themselves are not indicative of a police state.

I did not assume such a position. I was responding to your assertion that the people of Britain would not allow such a thing. Now, how do you justify such a comment?

 

[Poi E]

But you'd also be saying that anyone working within or for the state - which includes a lot of public sector workers - was supporting a semi-fascist state. Surely you could hurt a lot of peoples' feelings by doing that?

Do you really think that your average civil servant takes criticism of a state personally? Surely they do not so closely identify with the institution they work for. Maybe senior civil servants do. In any event, my taxes help to pay their wages, which I believe does give me a right to let the odd broadside out (at the institution, not the person.)

Edit: Thinking about it, surely the right to criticise one's government takes precedence over any hurt feelings.

 

[TeeJay]

Of course you have the right. I was just pointing out that it isn't true that you won't hurt anyone's feelings - a lot of people really wouldn't want anything to do with the government if it really was semi-fascist and would feel that saying that it is, is to say something highly offensive about them and their work.

 

[fela fan]

Sorry Fela,
But i dont think that people living in glass houses should throw stones.
Your an ex pat so how can you moralise or judge whats happening in the UK.

I am im afraid quite a bigoted person and the thought of x pats cheering on England at Football one minute then slagging off the UK as a semi fascist state the next, i find a bit difficult.

Now mate, listen, i'd like to tell you politely to FUCK OFF...

Why should it bother you so what some unknown is doing thousands of miles away? No doubt you cheer england, and no doubt you slag the country off at times, just like me. But according to your weird logic you don't like me doing this coz i'm an 'x pat'??? On leaving my country, i can no longer express criticisms of it? Wow!

But to be fair to you, i know where you're coming from, but it is not right for me coz i'm not a fucking x pat, if i was i'd be rich as fuck and dissing the natives.

As for me moralising and judging, get a fucking life man. Read my original post. And in any case, if i care about something, and it's not going right, then i will fucking criticise it in the hopes it gets better. Alright?

And to be fair again, you did say you were bigoted. But, either way, the fallacy, as expressed by many on this thread, that if i no longer live in the country i can't criticise it, and i don't know what's going on, well, fuckin blow me down, i thought we had some intelligent debaters on this board.

Oh well.

 

[fela fan]

It's much more useful to ask specific questions like "which rights have been compromised, who does that benefit, what impact does it have, what direction does it indicate, is there an underlying philosophy behind it and if so what is its future" etc, not some big vague question that doesn't mean much.

Okay, you want 'more useful' questions?

What do posters think of having the first law that allows a copper to hold someone for 14 days? What do posters think of blair's claim and desire to increase this to three months?

Why does a copper need three months to deal with a suspect? With today's intelligence and the speed with which one can drag up details of almost anybody, why do they need three months?

Is anyone challenging blair when he says three months is what is needed to 'make the country safe'?

Is there any debate about this law at all in the mass media? Has anyone drawn the parallel that i did between britain in the 2000s and s africa in the 1960s?

 

[audiotech]

I did not assume such a position. I was responding to your assertion that the people of Britain would not allow such a thing. Now, how do you justify such a comment?

During the late 60's and early to mid 70's there was a right load of shit going on in this country, with various colonel blimp types organising private armies, a right wing rump in the intelligence services 'bungling and burgling' their way across London. Smears against Harold Wilson and Ted Heath. The NF and British Movement thugs attacking political and trade union activists and bizarrely, Hughie Green of 'Opportunity Knocks' fame (Paula Yate's dad it turns out) talking bollocks on TV. It has been seriously suggested that a right-wing coup was being organised against a democratically elected Labour government. It didn't take place because those more intelligent amongst our rulers knew (even if you don't now) that the people of Britain would rise up against it. We got Thatcher instead and the poll tax riots.

 

[audiotech]

Okay, you want 'more useful' questions?

What do posters think of having the first law that allows a copper to hold someone for 14 days? What do posters think of blair's claim and desire to increase this to three months?

Why does a copper need three months to deal with a suspect? With today's intelligence and the speed with which one can drag up details of almost anybody, why do they need three months?

Is anyone challenging blair when he says three months is what is needed to 'make the country safe'?

Is there any debate about this law at all in the mass media? Has anyone drawn the parallel that i did between britain in the 2000s and s africa in the 1960s?

The holding people for three months is not going to happen. The Judges are against it, as are the tories, liberals, the legal profession and uncle tom cobbly and all. Btw, latest news is the prisons are full.

 

[audiotech]

Um, I think you've entirely missed the point.

Wooooooooooooosh!

 

[tobyjug]

Btw, latest news is the prisons are full.

Yes, it is all these revolting OAPs who refuse to pay their council tax.

 

[tbaldwin]

Now mate, listen, i'd like to tell you politely to FUCK OFF...

Why should it bother you so what some unknown is doing thousands of miles away? No doubt you cheer england, and no doubt you slag the country off at times, just like me. But according to your weird logic you don't like me doing this coz i'm an 'x pat'??? On leaving my country, i can no longer express criticisms of it? Wow!

But to be fair to you, i know where you're coming from, but it is not right for me coz i'm not a fucking x pat, if i was i'd be rich as fuck and dissing the natives.

As for me moralising and judging, get a fucking life man. Read my original post. And in any case, if i care about something, and it's not going right, then i will fucking criticise it in the hopes it gets better. Alright?

And to be fair again, you did say you were bigoted. But, either way, the fallacy, as expressed by many on this thread, that if i no longer live in the country i can't criticise it, and i don't know what's going on, well, fuckin blow me down, i thought we had some intelligent debaters on this board.

Oh well.

It kind of bothers me cos i'm a bigot to be honest fela.
Your wrong i dont support England the moment i hear the National anthem, i think WANKERS. Who really wants to sing along with GOD SAVE THE QUEEN?
That XPats support England shouldnt suprise or bother me maybe. BUT I dont trust People who colonise other peoples countries and have a much higher standard of living than most of the people in that country.

You seem to be pro england when its suits you. Im a bit like that. Patriotic in my way just not to the Rich especially the Monarchy and Imperialists living in the Sun.

Your right though i shouldnt dictate to you about your moralising we all do it on here and for all i know you might be a good bloke who would make me think again about my bigotry towards x pats.

 

[Poi E]

During the late 60's and early to mid 70's there was a right load of shit going on in this country, with various colonel blimp types organising private armies, a right wing rump in the intelligence services 'bungling and burgling' their way across London. Smears against Harold Wilson and Ted Heath. The NF and British Movement thugs attacking political and trade union activists and bizarrely, Hughie Green of 'Opportunity Knocks' fame (Paula Yate's dad it turns out) talking bollocks on TV. It has been seriously suggested that a right-wing coup was being organised against a democratically elected Labour government. It didn't take place because those more intelligent amongst our rulers knew (even if you don't now) that the people of Britain would rise up against it. We got Thatcher instead and the poll tax riots.

I guess I just don't have a lot of faith in the notion of assuming that a populace will resist such things (rather than can-of course the potential is there but whether it happens is another thing). I do hope you're right.

 

[Poi E]

a lot of people really wouldn't want anything to do with the government if it really was semi-fascist and would feel that saying that it is, is to say something highly offensive about them and their work.

Good for the populace to let them know, I reckon. The power of the bureaucracy to both resist and advance totalitarianism is marked.