Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by Kaka Tim, Jun 27, 2016.

?

Will we have a brexit?

  1. Yes - A fully independant Britain making its own way in the world (apart from scotland).

    16.9%
  2. A Semi-Detached Norway type deal

    33.5%
  3. No - 2nd referendum and/or face saving fudge to let us slink back in feeling a bit fucking stupid

    49.6%
  1. Humberto

    Humberto Your world. Your life. Your debt.

    I see it coming out as basically staying in the EU with less benefits vs shoot ourselves in the face and no deal. We've had a succession of ministers that have tactically resigned or been booted out after getting us nowhere. Keir Starmer is still there. What does he stand for? Are they all hiding behind a Lexit by stealth or let them topple themselves gamble? At the end of the day, politics doesn't go on hold because of a hung parliament/Brexit impasse
     
    dialectician likes this.
  2. dialectician

    dialectician Minimal Donk

    Or alternatively
     
  3. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    Right now though, that’s exactly what it feels like. We’re in a weird never-seen-before stasis cum turmoil.

    It *shouldn’t* be like this, for sure, but we are where are, and it’s rubbish for anyone with an interest either way.
     
  4. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    This thread like no other really shows the divide.
    You can feel the ardent remainers frothing at the prospect that this threat to thier privileges could be collapsing, that the restoration of the stability and growth of thier privilged status quo is within grasp. They're going for the kill.
    While the few of us that have the bottle, or better said the misfortune in life - through permanently peering into the financial abyss, realise that that brexit poses a lifetime opportunity to front the old UK elites, the core of capital no less, to a proverbial one-on-one ''outside in the carpark" are being left exposed.
    Sure, that fight still needs to be settled, but what a bunch of worthless shitcunts some are, doing the elites dirty work for them from within our ranks, spreadibg the neoliberal fear of 'negative growth', 'drops in house prices', '''what will the city think?'...
    Scared that mummy and daddy's wealth will be wiped out and all that inheritance turn to shit?
    Lexit here nor there, the rise of corbyn on the back of brexit wasnt just a coincidence and coversely, still banging on about remain 2 years down the line is nothing short of a knife in the back of socialism.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  5. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    More hand-wavy stuff.
    What or where exactly is the carpark of opportunity?
     
  6. Kaka Tim

    Kaka Tim Crush the Saboteurs!

    oh please fuck off with the self righteous prolier-than-thou-wank. most people on here who are anti-brexit hold that position because they believe it will make things significantly worse for the people who are already fucked over - i.e higher prices, unemployment, even greater cuts to services plus the clear hazard of the shredding of regulations across a whole host of areas from employment rights to food standards to health and safety. oh - and the threat of nhs privatisation. and the fucking over of the lives of everyone in northern ireland cos the reintroduction of the border.
    has one single person mentioned fucking house prices? or what the city will think?

    I work in a community centre in one of the most deprived areas of leeds. I am absolutely certain that brexit will make it significantly harder to fund the programs we run - everything from benefits advice to a bike library to community arts to advocacy to a youth club. Because there will be less money from local authorities and other funders. At the the same time the demand for our services will increase.
    There is no great opportunity that a radicalised working class is going to up and seize. they will not be confronting the captains of capital one on one in the carpark. It will just make life even meaner and shitter for people who are already on the edge.
     
    Nylock, Plumdaff, Wookey and 17 others like this.
  7. Yossarian

    Yossarian free shrugs

    I'd think something pretty fucking shifty was going on if I confronted the old UK elites in a carpark and Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson offered to hold my coat.
     
  8. Raheem

    Raheem Well-Known Member

    Trying to work out whether the car park analogy is better or shitter than the divorce one. Or maybe Brexit is actually like a divorce on a car park.
     
    Dogsauce and Yossarian like this.
  9. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Numerous people have talked about how leaving the EU will 'harm the economy', the analysis of the BoE has been posited as a neutral apolitical body, the spoutings of libdem 'trade experts' have been posted favourably.

    Of course they aren't. But the difference is that no one on U75 (bar a few UKIP-lite loons who inevitably get booted after a while) has argued that they are. Whereas some U75 posters have argued that the EU is on the side of the workers, individuals/groups supporting remain have been quoted approvingly regardless of their shitty politics
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  10. dialectician

    dialectician Minimal Donk

    'the economy.'
     
    seventh bullet and Duncan2 like this.
  11. dialectician

    dialectician Minimal Donk

    ive said it loads of times there is no 'lexit' and whatever the result, remain will win. but it is dubious at best that your side (not you personally btw!) is willing to castigate people who advance this line or refused to vote. imagine being uncritical of an institution that contributed to the deaths of nearly 4000 migrants and refugees alone last year.

    And leading on from this everything gets made to retrofit into a guilt tripping narritive.

    workers get sacked/capital pushes chhanges on industry? brexit. more cuts? brexit.
    unions fail to represent immigrants? brexit.
    corbyn puts more cops on the table? fortress britain and brexit.

    rise in racism? brexit

    more knife crime? brexit.

    this is hardly analysis is it. it's just succumbing to media spectacle.
     
  12. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    Bully for you. EU funded by any chance?
     
    Duncan2 and Pickman's model like this.
  13. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    #desperately attempts to avoid mangling that Brecht quote about the government kicking out the electorate and appointing another one. Fails...#
     
  14. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    The car park of opportunity leads to the shopping centre of the imagination
     
    Almor likes this.
  15. brogdale

    brogdale Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism

    This bit?

    "...the people
    Had forfeited the confidence of the government
    And could win it back only
    By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
    In that case for the government
    To dissolve the people
    And elect another?"
     
    William of Walworth and andysays like this.
  16. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    I agree with a lot of what you posted on this thread. And I know that sometimes it can be exasperating (I've been a bit quick off the trigger myself occasionally), but I think this is a bit unfair.

    I disagree with much of Kaka Tim's analysis but he's motivated by a genuine concern about how the UK leaving the EU will affect his local community - just as you are.
     
    Nylock, MrSpikey, Flavour and 6 others like this.
  17. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    or that half of 'the left' don't have the will to fight the fight that needs to be fought, but would rather sneer from the sidelines.
     
  18. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree Unintended gear-stick action

    I'm curious about why Lexit seems to be such a British thing. It's at odds with the views of Podemos, Syriza and the rest of the left (mostly) in the mainland EU. There's certainly a degree or ten of Euroscepticism but there's also a willingness to turn it into a community of nations among the left nationalists and there are ideas like mutualisation of debt being floated (although Podemos would like national control of currency brought back, I think). Is a return to at least the social Europe envisaged by Brandt not an option? Achieved by staying in and changing things?

    Britain obviously has an opinion about Europe that crosses ideologies while Spain, say, has a generally positive almost visceral need to be in a European community that also crosses similar ideologies.

    Perhaps it's physical geography and history that changes the left's view of Europe in different parts of it.
     
  19. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    I'm glad you picked up on that, and I completely agree with what you say. my comment was in context and probably only Kaka Tim got it. I was reflecting his own bully for you moment up thread, where he couldn't help himself by ridiculing my outlook on life despite being told about the precarious financial situation me and my family are in. It was a cunts trick and nobody pulled him up on it then... no respect. Back at him.
     
  20. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    sorry, i missed that
     
    pocketscience, SpackleFrog and Poi E like this.
  21. co-op

    co-op Free the rhubarb crumble!

    I've wondered this too. The best books I've read on why we need a lexit was Varoufakis's description of how the Syriza govt in Greece was destroyed by the EU and then you see him actually pounding the streets of Britain campaigning for Remain. Seriously I might have swallowed the mainstream Remain argument if I hadn't read him, and I still don't get how he can maintain the position. If it was Greece we were talking about then I can see it - it's a tiny country with a militarist nationalist Turkey next door, a collapsing state in Syria, refugees by the thousand, all sorts of war potential. But the UK? Surely he can see we have the option and given the reality of what the EU actually does (as opposed to its fluffy talk) we should be taking that seriously, at least to weaken the EU as much as possible. Don't get it.
     
  22. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    and of course - *of course* - the uk government had nothing whatsoever to do with that, they just happened to be at the big table where decisions were made, purely by chance, stood idly by etc.


    all the fault of the eu, nothing to do with auld blighty, right.
     
    SpookyFrank likes this.
  23. brogdale

    brogdale Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism

    Do we?
    What evidence of that would Yanis be able to see?
     
  24. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank We kill the flame

    You'll forgive us if we didn't get your coded reference to a post 500 pages back.
     
    Wookey and William of Walworth like this.
  25. Kaka Tim

    Kaka Tim Crush the Saboteurs!

    no. but so what if it was? there a lots of EU
    i dont remember what led to that comment - and i'll fess up that is comes across a bit snide - sorry. up until pretty recently i was in a similar situation - and many of my mates and most of the people i work with are either clinging on or going under.
     
    Nylock, MrSpikey, Flavour and 5 others like this.
  26. co-op

    co-op Free the rhubarb crumble!

    Relative to Greece we do, surely that's clear? What's equivalent of the dangers of the eastern Med now for the UK? What threats do we face?
     
  27. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    Out of interest, are you feeling as angry at Labour for blocking Brexit? (In particular by not voting for the transition deal)
     
  28. co-op

    co-op Free the rhubarb crumble!

    I know I'm late to this conversation but that's been the case for at least half of the people I know for the past 10 years. And even when you're up, you know it's just "for now", there's no long term security. How's the EU helped us get out of that trap?
     
    Duncan2 likes this.
  29. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    Its an interesting question because at the time it was very much portrayed as being a Eurozone issue rather than an EU one. Whilst British governments have clearly had a lot of input into the original mess Greece found itself into I don't know how much involvement there was in the bailout conditions. I remember Osborn was not at the table for those. That being said there are always fingers in pies.
     
    William of Walworth likes this.
  30. brogdale

    brogdale Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism

    I'm yet to be convinced that 'we' have any option to leave the EU.
     

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