Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by Kaka Tim, Jun 27, 2016.

?

Will we have a brexit?

  1. Yes - A fully independant Britain making its own way in the world (apart from scotland).

    18.1%
  2. A Semi-Detached Norway type deal

    33.2%
  3. No - 2nd referendum and/or face saving fudge to let us slink back in feeling a bit fucking stupid

    48.7%
  1. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    This comment suggests that you equate concern about immigration and/or multiculturalism with racism. Not LBJ.
     
  2. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    You think I'm wrong? you think there wouldn't be a marked correlation between those responding that they don't like multiculturalism, whatever it is they take it to mean, and those who don't like immigration? I haven't mentioned racism when discussing this survey, btw. That's all your own invention.

    It is extremely tiresome, btw, to have to point out again and again and again, that even if I am saying (and I do say this) that a significant number of people voting leave did so for racist reasons, I'm not saying that 'leave voters are basically racist'.

    All crows are birds; this is a bird; therefore this is a crow.
     
  3. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    I think the question is answered here

    Screen Shot 2018-08-10 at 12.51.03.jpg

    Of people who see multiculturism as 'good', 13% of them see immigration as 'bad' and 65% see immigration as 'good'.

    Of people who see multiculturism as 'bad', 82% of them see immigration as 'bad' and 6% see immigration as 'good'.
     
    toblerone3 likes this.
  4. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    ah. but what do they mean by 'immigration'? it's not like all immigrants are equal, is it. if they were asked about immigrants from e.g. canada, ireland, australia and new zealand do you think the results would be the same as they might for cameroon, indonesia, angola and zimbabwe?
     
  5. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    This table should be relevant for anyone who hopes the leave vote marks a rejection of capitalism.

    There's pretty much zero difference between remain and leave voters.

    Screen Shot 2018-08-10 at 13.01.38.jpg
     
    toblerone3 likes this.
  6. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    has anyone outside your imagination claimed that the referendum in any indicated people's feelings on capitalism?
     
    redsquirrel likes this.
  7. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    No.
     
  8. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Yes.
     
  9. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    please expand
     
    NoXion likes this.
  10. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist my world is fire and blood

    its been established that the questions are subjectively defined enough to be meaningless and the resultant data deliberately misleadingly displayed. Lets move on unless anyone has any more shonky tailored for audience liegraphs to share?
     
  11. Ranbay

    Ranbay The same rules apply

    Y e s.
     
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    [​IMG]
     
    HoratioCuthbert and Ranbay like this.
  13. isvicthere?

    isvicthere? a.k.a. floppybollocks

    I said "immigration" because to quote most of the conversations I've had verbatim would be, shall we say, unedifying.
     
  14. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    I agree that they are subjectively defined enough that you need to be very conservative in interpreting the results. I don't agree that they are meaningless, though. But I'll leave it.
     
  15. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    The Ashcroft questions fall short on explaining people's main motivations for voting leave, because in the bit where people are asked to rank their reasons for voting leave, they are only given three statements to choose from, and its entirely possible that their primary reasons weren't covered by those questions. So I agree that bit's somewhat meaningless; it only tells us about the relative importance of the factors the survey asked about. It still contains lots of useful information as long as you understand that there are areas where it doesn't provide information. It tells us that there is very strong belief amongst Leave voters that certain things will be improved after Brexit - job prospects, economic security, border controls and more - even if it doesn't tell us which of those things (or other things not asked about) were most important in their decision.
     
    kabbes and agricola like this.
  16. HoratioCuthbert

    HoratioCuthbert Ceithir casan air seathair(sic)

    Shonky :)
     
  17. Poi E

    Poi E Pessimism: a valuable protection against quackery.

    Australia/NZ informal, apparently. The Neighbours effect. Like people saying no worries. More to come with trade deals with Oz.
     
  18. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    They are clear cut but not in the way you mean. It shows that the majority of Brexit voters are in favour of or neutral to multiculturalism.
     
  19. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Well-Known Member

    I think it's generally accepted that there was a racist element to the brexit vote.

    Some here may not like it...or wrap themselves in contortions to disprove it.

    I'm not sure I understand why.
     
    CRI and toblerone3 like this.
  20. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    :facepalm:
    Like I said, Dexters gotta be a Brexit stooge.
    Steve Bannon operative, nailed on.
     
  21. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    I think it's generally accepted that there was a racist element to the remain vote.

    Some here may not like it...or wrap themselves in contortions to disprove it.

    I'm not sure I understand why.
     
  22. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Yep, but a very different pattern of distribution, with the vast majority of those who see multiculturalism as an ill voting leave. That is what I meant by 'clear-cut'. The results are consistent with the idea that there exists a racist minority in Britain that voted overwhelmingly leave. Many on this thread have invoked the majority vote as justification for brexit. Well, take that hard core of racists who largely voted leave for racist reasons out of the count and that majority disappears. The idea that this is some grand exercise in democracy is a pretty sick joke.
     
    CRI and toblerone3 like this.
  23. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    Does the U75 bubble get to remove the neoliberalists from the remain vote too?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  24. HoratioCuthbert

    HoratioCuthbert Ceithir casan air seathair(sic)

    The Jim Crow enthusiasts, the people that think saying they looooove multiculturalism gives them an excuse to throw minority groups under the bus when suits....
     
  25. HoratioCuthbert

    HoratioCuthbert Ceithir casan air seathair(sic)

    Take out all those people that voted to remain part of an institution that built a 700 km wall to keep Europe white and we lose like the entire remain vote
    Or, eh, maybe this is a silly argument.
     
  26. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    You better remove the 11% of remain voters who also thought multiculturalism is a force for ill.

    Also all the remain voters that broadly view white Europeans as being of the same culture as them (or at least acceptably close to employ as builders and plumbers) but are highly dubious of those with skin of a darker hue.
     
  27. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    How is this bigot/racist vote defined? And how large is it?
    Anyone who think's multiculturalism is a force for ill? Anyone who has voted UKIP? Anyone who has voted BNP? Anyone who is concerned about immigration? Are those that didn't vote to keep UKIP/BNP out bigots?

    And what does "go fuck itself" mean? Are the bigots consigned to the naughty step? They and their votes not counted until they behave as you want them to?
     
  28. kebabking

    kebabking Unfettered ambition

    So, does the vote ignoring ticklist littlebabyjesus puts forward mean that, come the 2023 GE, the returning officers should ignore the votes of anti-Semitic conspiraloons who vote happen to vote Labour?

    Should the referendum vote be recounted to exclude remain votes that were cast on the basis of 'better a Pole than a Pakistani'?
     
  29. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Lbj like Hans Christian Anderson's emperor
     
  30. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    What about removing the racists from the Remain vote? Did that notion ever occur to you?
     
    sealion likes this.

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