Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by Kaka Tim, Jun 27, 2016.
I don't have to because leave won.
Well, that's a start, nice one
They aren't running scared of a customs union, they just don't want to be the ones blamed by the pro-Brexit crowd when that is what they end up with (even though that (ie: a bespoke customs union) would be the best possible outcome from any talks).
The point is that either everybody has to, or nobody has to. Anything else is just self-serving bullshit.
Generally speaking, throwing your hands up and saying "fuck this do what you want" is alright if it's just someone you know being a bit of a dick, as the consequences are mostly to them. It's less useful if you're also chained together.
I fully accept everybody has to leave. I don't see your point.
You know full well what I meant. Brexit is far from a done deal, so you can't use that as a self-serving excuse for why Leavers should have to explain themselves while Remainers don't.
Thank you for assuming I am telepathic, but sorry to say I'm not.
Brexit is a done deal isn't it? Or do you mean what some describe as 'negotiations'? I believe leavers should explain their plans now. It is a bit rich if you're saying that remainers should also be telepathic and know the brexiters plans.
Brexit does not mean remainers have to sort it all out. That would be dumping responsibility on them for a situation they didn't want, very especially when brexiters are not even making a start.
I might be self serving, but don't intend to be brexiters serving.
If it was then this thread wouldn't exist.
I'm not saying that Remainers should know Leavers' plans, you fucking idiot. I'm saying that expecting people to justify Leave, without also expecting people to justify Remain, is one-sided bollocks.
I never said that. You're putting words in my mouth. Again.
Try actually paying attention to what people are saying to you.
Perhaps instead of quibbling over this bullshit, you could explain to us why you think ordinary citizens should be doing all the planning work that civil servants and politicians get paid to do.
Because it is not possible for civil servants and politicians to do the planning work.
The ordinary citizens frequently say they knew what they were voting for, so now is their chance to supply the blueprint.
It is a bit like the ordinary citizens voting that proof should be found that ghosts exist, and then telling the politicians and civil servants to supply that proof.
Or perhaps the other analogy in this conundrum is to be found in the story 'The Emperors New Clothes', the clothes didn't exist, and solutions don't exist, but if the Emperor and people insist they do, they have to prove it.
Why is it not possible? Most of them have got a fancy education, experience in civil matters, and so on. Even if they don't have those things, then they've still got the resources of the government to draw on, the rest of us don't. If they can't do it, how the fuck do you expect anyone else to be able to do it?
People knew what they were voting for, whether they voted Leave or Remain. I dunno about you, but I didn't see a section on the ballot paper where I could pencil in my plans about how to proceed. I just saw a simple choice, Leave or Remain.
I don't know why you're mentioning ghosts. Or do you really think that countries should have no choice but to stay within the EU once they join up?
All the fancy education in the world, and all the resources have led us to nowhere so far. Given all the time the educated, the Politicians and the civil servants have had they have come up with nothing, so that is why I think it isn't possible.
If as you say people knew what they were voting for how come it isn't going along swimmingly, perhaps they didn't know but were pretending.
I don't think countries should have no choice whether to stay or remain but they should have a plan.
If somebody says 'I'm divorcing you but moving to Australia, but nevertheless I expect you to drop the kids off at my place every weekend', the reasonable response might well be 'have you thought this through?'
Brexit has won, the EU assumes the UK has thought it through, and have been reasonably asking the UK for answers, but the UK doesn't seem to have any, and it isn't because the EU are asking the wrong questions.
So the politicians and civil servants fucked it up, and you think the voters are to blame for that?
You voted remain. Why do you hate the Greeks? Where’s your plan?
You assume the politicians and civil servants messed it up, what if they tried and the 'will of the people' was impossible to do? Isn't that the moment to ask the people to do it themselves?
There is an old tale that when Laurence Olivier was filming Henry V in Ireland, he told an Irish extra that the next shot required the extra to hide in a tree, and jump on an armoured knight galloping past on his horse, and bring him to the ground. The Irish extra said to Laurence 'could you just show me how it's done?'.
Why do you like Turkey’s approach to refugees so much? You voted for it.
I don't need a plan, I lost.
I wasn't aware that Turkey was in the EU.
I'm not assuming, they didn't even write shit down.
Fuck this. You’re incapable of honest debate @Philosophicall. Reading or comprehension about anything re hunan motives.. Waste of bits.
Because they were worried the freedom of information act would winkle it out of them? I have my doubts about that regarding civil servants.
Or was it because there was nothing for the Politicians to tell the civil servants to actually write down (possible) or nothing good to write down (probable)?
If we saw what they wrote down maybe it would be idle doodling anyway. I don't see not writing things down as messing up, but more a sort of paralysis.
And? Who’s dealing with Turkey? You can join our club maybe if you hold these people. Oh have some cash too.
Paralysis in this case is the same thing. They messed up by not producing a plan before the referendum result. Polling was predicting a Remain win, but it's hardly as if a Leave result was completely out of the question. You're clutching at straws and speculating based on fuck-all.
That is just garbage. Lord O'Donnell being reported in the telegraph as reported by the bbc saying that every civil servant is working on brexit? Just lies, it's fantasy.
We're in 2018, two years after that article. Does it look like every civil servant has been working on everything? Anything?
The civil service have been doing their jobs, like normal.
That's exactly my point you flailing imbecile. They clearly haven't been working on the possibility of Leave winning the Brexit vote, even though they should have.
What have you contributed apart from snide drunken shit ?
Separate names with a comma.