Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by Kaka Tim, Jun 27, 2016.

?

Will we have a brexit?

  1. Yes - A fully independant Britain making its own way in the world (apart from scotland).

    18.1%
  2. A Semi-Detached Norway type deal

    33.0%
  3. No - 2nd referendum and/or face saving fudge to let us slink back in feeling a bit fucking stupid

    48.8%
  1. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

     
    sealion likes this.
  2. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    Villain?
    Do go on.
    The 'me me me look at me' trope can be applied to anybody writing things on a messageboard on the internet.
    All that leads to is mere opinion regarding degrees.
    Your opinion is just that, like mine, the opinion of one individual.
    Seeing as how you mention the border, can you suggest any practical and workable solution?
     
  3. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Well-Known Member

    I was about to ask the same. Instead of just mouthing off.

    I doubt he even knows what the border situation is.
     
  4. sealion

    sealion Conscientious selector

    Give me 25 reasons why you voted remain and i might think about it.
     
    NoXion likes this.
  5. sealion

    sealion Conscientious selector

    If thats what you think you should expect no answer from me then.
     
  6. sealion

    sealion Conscientious selector

    Fuck all about the border on this
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    It seems to me the only real solutions to the border issue are:
    • Full 'hard' border between the 6 counties and the rest of Ireland
    • Border in the Irish sea (preferably this side of the Isle of Man because they're weird)
    • A united Ireland
    • A shit border where people make the right noises but no one really gives a fuck (fudge option)
    It'd be some sort of fudge I reckon but any of the above will leave some people pissed off, but there are no perfect solutions here. The situation is clearly not perfect at the moment so its just swapping one imperfect situation for another.

    I'm convinced that in the medium term we will see an united Ireland and an independent Scotland. The best thing to do now would be to accept that reality and work under that assumption.
     
  8. sealion

    sealion Conscientious selector

    Solutions needed for Massive youth unemployment in europe, Eu refugee camps, Fruit pickers and labourers living 6 to a caravan, Roi being a tax haven for big business yet the workers don't benefit from this. I DEMAND immediate answers or i'll stick a guilt trip on you and call you racsist :mad:
     
    Omaplata, NoXion, Fozzie Bear and 2 others like this.
  9. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Well-Known Member

    I'm serious.

    I don't think you know what the situation is re the border, where it is proposed to be, who is against it, how the tories tried to trick everyone and who caused this situation.

    And I never expect an answer from you in this thread. A quick scan of your posts confirms that you're just a troll with nothing to contribute.

    https://www.urban75.net/forums/search/51580583/
     
  10. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    Call me a racist then.
    I don't feel guilt. Hatred yes, but guilt no.
    I suppose I would feel guilty if I voted brexit.
     
  11. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    Don't forget the need for a solution to problems like the Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich, which is certainly related to the problem of RoI being a tax haven but is in truth a whole separate class of problems to itself that comes about due to unfettered trade access between EU nations. As fast as loopholes can be shut, tax lawyers and accountants come up with three more.
     
    sealion and NoXion like this.
  12. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    The vote has been and gone and the brexiters won.
    For that reason I feel no inclination to dance to your tune and provide you with 25 reasons why I voted remain.
     
  13. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    That would only make sense if you now endorse Brexit. Otherwise, you still need to justify why you disagree with it, when disagreeing with Brexit means agreeing with staying in the EU and all its attendant problems.

    And even then, it's illogical to say that people that cast a vote one way in a ballot need to have worked out solutions for all the problems associated with that vote, whilst those who cast their vote the other way don't need to have worked out any such solutions. The subsequent results of the vote are irrelevant to a judgement of the thought process involved in the vote. Either both sides need to justify themselves or neither do.
     
    sealion and Fozzie Bear like this.
  14. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    I disagree with brexit for reasons stated many times above. I voted remain for other reasons also stated above (for example not wanting to side with the Tories, the EU democracy being preferable to the UK one, because the concept of a sovereign UK is a fancy word to cover nationalism, because I wanted to signal to 'foreigners' that not everybody hates them).
    None of my reasons matter because brexit won. Brexiters have got the people into this mess, and if they have no solutions, as far as I'm concerned they should have thought about that before voting.
     
  15. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    So all your reasons amount to voting AGAINST rather than voting FOR.

    Well then, who should yes voters not also have voted AGAINST rather than FOR?
     
    sealion likes this.
  16. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    Get over yourself you pompous twit.

    I voted remain but this shit show is ours now. Anyway its just a different flavour of shit sandwich.
     
  17. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    yeh. you know there were tories campaigning for remain too, right? to be true to yourself you should have abstained.
     
    MrSpikey, sealion, NoXion and 2 others like this.
  18. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    sadly the ballot designers discarded my recommendation that the question remain the same but the options be yes and no
     
  19. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    My preference for the EU version of democracy is a FOR my desire to appear welcoming to 'foreigners' is a FOR. There are others that I didn't mention, like collaboration in others areas such as harmonisation and high standards in medicines. I didn't list them all because I said I wasn't going to dance to the 25 reasons tune demanded above.
    Your question needs to be rephrased in order for me to understand what you're asking.
     
  20. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    the eu version of democracy is imposing governments as occurred in e.g. italy and greece and forcing reruns of referenda as in e.g. denmark
     
    Omaplata and sealion like this.
  21. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    Your point is valid. I have associated myself very regrettably with some Tories, and I ought to have abstained. I saw it as an emergency to stand against Gove, Farage, Johnson, and the like.
    However having voted I now see it as a ticket that validates my demand that the winners solve the problems they created.
    Abstaining would probably have been a good decision, but there you go. I am prepared to accept responsibility for voting remain.
     
  22. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    Indeed.
    However brexit won. We are under the constraints of the UK version of 'democracy' now.
    That is the preference of those voting in the referendum, so the winners ought to suggest solutions to the problems they caused, in my view most especially the land border on the island of Ireland.
    Time is running out.
     
  23. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    i think you'll find that the brexiteers did not cause the land border on the island of ireland which is rather down to the likes of david lloyd george and winston spencer churchill.
     
    sealion likes this.
  24. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    'Ours'?
    Thanks for the compliment though.
     
  25. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    I agree with you. Brexiters did not cause the establishment of the six counties and the death and pain it has caused. However the combination of both countries being in the EU, and the Good Friday Agreement has reduced the death and pain considerably.
    Brexiters have now put the recent years of peace and harmony and efforts at collaboration at risk.
     
  26. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    the uk and roi joined the eec/eu in 1973. just as you can't set the killings in the troubles at the eu's door you can't set the decline in deaths there either.
     
    Omaplata and sealion like this.
  27. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    Yes, in the way that I didn't vote for the tories but May is still my prime minister. That's the thing about democracy sometimes (all of the time) you just have to suck it up and make the best of what you end up with. Unless of course you are planning personally on ceding from the UK.
     
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  28. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    I said it was a combination. For many both countries being outwardly facing towards the EU softened the notion that was forever to be in thrall to the UK, which helped to remove one part of the justification for conflict, then there was reform to the corrupt electoral features that were then inherent in Northern Ireland, then their was the Good Friday Agreement.
    At my age there have been several life dominating features involving conflict and threat. The results of the second world war were to be seen everywhere as a child, I was born under rationing, we had to live in a prefab, play on what we called bomb sites, our teachers were frequently limbless, or damaged in other ways having fought in the war like my father did.
    Another threat came from the cold war and threat of nuclear Armageddon, and from my teens to my forties everyday life was lived in the shadow of Irish related terrorism.
    At least two of those features of my life has led me to welcome the hope signalled by the existence of the EU, and pretty well established peace in Ireland.
    You may wish to dismiss the relevance of my life experience, but I see the combination of factors leading to a decline in deaths in Ireland have been very much helped by the existence of the EU.
     
  29. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    You can vote May out next time. I see brexit as damage forever.
    I certainly wouldn't mind ceding from the UK, but an accident of birth places me here.
     
  30. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    the results of the second world war are still to be seen all around. as are the results of slavery and the abolition thereof.
     

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