Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by Kaka Tim, Jun 27, 2016.


Will we have a brexit?

  1. Yes - A fully independant Britain making its own way in the world (apart from scotland).

  2. A Semi-Detached Norway type deal

  3. No - 2nd referendum and/or face saving fudge to let us slink back in feeling a bit fucking stupid

  1. Wilf

    Wilf Dances like a Christian

    see post 6225/7. :)
    Pickman's model likes this.
  2. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    Representational democracy you mean?
  3. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    You may have that opinion, but I disagree with you (unsurprisingly).
    You have outlined a couple of examples, especially your second on, that would lead to people having to choose to stay in their home community, or go away if they objected to what happens. I see that as a cavalier approach to the lives of others, perhaps that is something you don't realise.
  4. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    Perhaps you could research matters of Irish home rule from 1870.

    This is what you posted:

    To be fair, I proposed the reunification of Ireland on this thread three whole months ago, when young philosophical was but a glint in the editor’s eye:
  5. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Official Twitter Liaison Officer

    You certainly did.

    Did you forget about the Democratic Unionist Party who are currently propping up the tories. How do you think the democratic unionist party and the conservative and Union party would take your suggestion of trading in part of the union?

    Also...nice to see you'd consider selling out your fellow citizens for convenience. NI voted remain and now you want them to fix your mess by suggesting they leave the UK?
  6. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Those posts contain someone else's response to the question.

    They seem to accept that many people will have voted without thinking or knowing about the full consequences of the decision they opted for.

    I feel that some people on here alternate between (a) taking offence at the idea that the vote was made in ignorance of the consequences for Ireland, and (b) saying that it's for the politicians to propose and work out solutions. Those two things seem contradictory to me.
  7. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    Let's be clear here. No one is suggesting that NI is simply given back to Ireland, or that people will be forced to leave their communities or that anyone's citizenship will be "sold out".

    What is being suggested is that the question of reunification is put to the vote and that is a majority of the NI population wants it, then reunification takes place. As has already been pointed out, this is explicitly provided for in the GFA.
  8. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    A vote in Northern Ireland alone?
  9. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    Who do you think should vote to decide the future of NI if not the people of NI?
  10. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    The people of the whole island perhaps
    flypanam likes this.
  11. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    Is there anything worth reading on tg the last 5 pages of this thread?
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Everything except philosophical's posts and of course 6251
  13. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    That suits me too, though I can see that some in NI might object...

    More seriously, that's not what the GFA sets out, so I don't think it can be put forward in the current situation.
  14. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    How generous. If you don't want to read my posts, put me on ignore.
  15. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    Well, I’ve posted a few times.
  16. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    Here's the whole thing if you fancy a read:
    teuchter likes this.
  17. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    Do I need to repeat the question?
  18. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Leave out the tg if you do repeat it
  19. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    I have highlighted the bit that says a United Ireland would have to be agreed by both the North and the South, and not by Northern ireland alone.

    Article 3 1. It is the firm will of the Irish nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island. Until then, the laws enacted by the Parliament established by this Constitution shall have the like area and extent of application as the laws enacted by the Parliament that existed immediately before the coming into operation of this Constitution.
  20. prunus

    prunus Mostly gone

    Not wanting to derail the discussion but I do like the fact that the (current) poll results above mirror the overall referendum nicely, with 48.1% on the 'no' side and the sum of the 2 'yes' types being (unsurprisingly) 51.9%.

    EU Referendum Results

    (now some ducker's going to go and vote and mess it up I expect).
  21. billbond

    billbond Well-Known Member

    What constitutes democracy is open to debate, but as I see it the rules followed in the UK (in the main) are that there is an election every five years or so, and a chance for change on those occasions, but the brexit referendum is a one time and forever vote and is of a different nature, a different version of democracy if you like (dare I say just as EU democracy is a different form)
    The brexit referendum isn't undemocratic in that sense, the UK parliamentary system isn't undemocratic, and the EU isn't undemocratic. However none of those systems are ideal (in my view) either.
    The issue now is for the brexiters to get on with it and implement it (whatever it is), and if brexiters are unable to follow through on the result of their victory we reach an impasse, which might lead to change utilising some different form of democracy as yet untried.
    It is entirely down to brexiters to resolve this, some call it squaring the circle because of it's seeming impossibility.
    Just as we are now faced with the consequences of the brexit vote, in just over a year we might be faced with the consequence that brexit voters have not been able to deliver (unless falling off a cliff edge is what they intended all along).[/QUOTE]

    You should go into Politics
    More twisting and turning than George Best in his heyday
    I bet your fav tv programme was "Yes Minister"
    Thats how they used to talk
  22. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    You should go into Politics
    More twisting and turning than George Best in his heyday
    I bet your fav tv programme was "Yes Minister"
    Thats how they used to talk[/QUOTE]

    I bet you work for Blake Morgan.

    Put me on ignore.
  23. stethoscope

    stethoscope Well-Known Member

    Sorry to break your theory a little, because I voted to leave (and still believe that to be the right thing to do), but voted no in the poll because the question posed was 'will we have a brexit' and I was quite expecting (as per kaka tim's OP) at that moment, that the united pressure from capital, threats from the City, hardliner remain groups, EU, etc. would ramp it up to prevent us leaving at any cost (indeed we still have persistent calls for a 2nd referendum from the likes of Blair).
    sealion and Pickman's model like this.
  24. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    Yes I think you're right (it's confusingly drafted, because the bit you've quoted is actually amendments to be made to the Irish Constitution). I guess the focus was on a majority for reunification in NI because in practice that was/is the bit that needed to change.
  25. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

  26. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Official Twitter Liaison Officer

    Decent article, doesn't go very in-depth but does outline the difficulties.

    And of course this is only about NI where RoI has a veto, there's still Gibraltar where Spain has a veto and everything else to be dealt with.
  27. Supine

    Supine Rough Like Badger

    Why should you expect to read anything here that would be workable or practical? This is a thread about whether brexit will actually happen.
  28. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    In the absence of any particular definition of what brexit means then workable and practical is my choice.
    Therefore it is as legitimate a definition as any other on this thread when discussing brexit isn't it?
    So whether a practical and workable brexit will happen is legitimate...unless I am missing something and you have an alternative or improved definition of brexit...or even any definition at all.
  29. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    it's taken me about 20 months to get 420 posts on this thread. looks like it'll take you fewer than 20 days.
    William of Walworth and alex_ like this.
  30. sealion

    sealion Well-Known Member

    He's here to tell anyone that voted leave that they are racist because we havn't considered the border issue in Ireland. Ignoring the fact that people voted in or out for various reasons and for reasons that affect them personally. He's banging the drum on the border issue because it's close to his heart (thats okay because it's me me me) but anyone else voting for personal reasons is the villian here.
    NoXion and Pickman's model like this.

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