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Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by Kaka Tim, Jun 27, 2016.

?

Will we have a brexit?

  1. Yes - A fully independant Britain making its own way in the world (apart from scotland).

    18.9%
  2. A Semi-Detached Norway type deal

    34.7%
  3. No - 2nd referendum and/or face saving fudge to let us slink back in feeling a bit fucking stupid

    46.3%
  1. agricola

    agricola a genuine importer of owls

    They did - and they did it unilaterally, without any recognition of what it would do to the other EU member states that the refugees had to pass through and without supporting the refugees themselves on the journey to Germany.

    If another country had done that - especially Greece or Italy - they'd have gone absolutely bananas and would probably have put borders back up.
     
    SpackleFrog, NoXion, sealion and 3 others like this.
  2. mather

    mather Well-Known Member

    Exactly, Germany unilaterally decided to take them in and when it turned out that German voters were none to pleased the German government forced the rest of the EU members to take their 'fair share'.

    Also, does anyone apart from naive liberals actually believe that Merkel's decision was a humanitarian gesture? Of course it wasn't, it was simply in keeping with the interests of the German ruling class which is to have a never ending supply of cheap labour that can be used to counter strikes/industrial action and depress wages.
     
  3. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    I'd say that yes. Combined with other unsavoury individual characteristics like selfishness and being inconsiderate that seem to be deeply ingrained into the majority of the population. I also find they're crafty and persistent at getting what they want. Not all germans mind, but IMO a disproportionately high number compared with most other countries.
    On a national level it does start to paint an ugly picture and these individual characteristics seem to lend themselves particularly well to politicians, who obviously end up being the ones shaping policies reflecting these characteristics on the nation both internally and abroad.
    I think you'll find most germans from center left to the outer left wing fringes would openly agree with a lot of this - particularly on the outer fringes e.g: German Antifa won't have a good word to say about the nation as a whole and it's not uncommon to meet people making it their life mission to hinder what they believe is the inevitable reoccurrence of fascism in Germany.

    On a topical note: why do you think it's Germany standing alone opposing closer federal unity, and particularly a federal fiscal policy in the EU? and realistically, do you really think there's a chance that the remaining 26 nations will be able to overturn the german 'will' on that policy?

    German have full hegemony in the Eu right now. I doubt they'll be letting go of that too soon.
     
  4. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist my world is fire and blood

    the fuck, c'mon.
     
  5. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    wow. this is all quite fascinating, I had no idea this german-hating stuff went so deep. You won the war in the end remember. :facepalm:
     
    Terry Manners likes this.
  6. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    take it up with slime too (hamburg hardcore anarcho punks)

    Deutschland muss sterben, damit wir leben koennen - Germany must die, so that we can live
     
  7. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    I don't hate Germans as a whole. I hate it when these characteristics raise their ugly head (anywhere)

    OK so now you're doing exactly that what you were complaining about
     
  8. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    You seem oblivious to the massive importance of 'never -againism' in Germany pocketscience , like Hitler just died last week or something. Vergangenheitsbewältigung they call it- the effort to come to terms with the past, particularly the nazi past. I think British could do with a bit of that tbh.
     
  9. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    Look, bollocks to the national stereotypes you’re hearing from some here bimble but that doesn’t take away Germany’s ability to centre itself as the predominant partner in the EU, the leader of neo-liberalism, and all that entails. That has (or shouldn’t have) nothing/anything to do with German hating but is simply a recognition of how economic laws and favours in the EU have worked in Germany’s favour. You do need to read Varoufakis. And some here need to re-read Varoufakis without xenophobic blinkers on.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  10. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    Come on, the Audi advert with the pool side towel cliche did't stem from nowhere
    So you have opinions about the british? fine.
    and I agree with you on that
     
  11. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    :D
     
  12. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    *cliche :p
    are you german bimble?
     
  13. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Nope, never even been there tbh but lets say my family history (eastern eurpoean jews) is intertwined with that of Germany. So yeah, I'm interested in what happened back then not being attributed to some peculiarly German trait, because i think that would be very stupid.
     
  14. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    OK. I would have been surprised if a German of your political persuasion (based on the posts I've read here) would strongly disagree with what I wrote.
    I'd say accepting and understanding these characteristics are an important part of the Vergangenheitsbewältigungsprozess.
    Anyone who's been on a demo in gemany will have heard the unanimous nie wider deuschland. A lot of the left would prefer to have the whole nation nullified and dispersed. That course starts to get interesting when you have the Bundesregierung actively resisting a federal union in the Eu.
     
  15. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    of course. It's not like anyone has partaken in national stereotyping of the british in this thread...
    ;)
     
    sealion likes this.
  16. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    What do you mean? That all German schoolchildren should be taught to acknowledge that they have a special tendency to be 'selfish inconsiderate crafty & persistant' more than they would had they been born elsewhere?:D
     
    Wookey likes this.
  17. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    National stereotypes and xenophobia? Straight out racism if you ask me. I’ve reported your post pocketscience. Suggest you apologise and edit.
     
    Kaka Tim and teuchter like this.
  18. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Many of them will have been born elsewhere
     
    Badgers likes this.
  19. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    If you knew my personal circumstances you'd realise just how ridiculous that is. Many a time in Germany I've been in a kneipe and had germans generalising to me about their opinions of the british characteristics (or other nationalities). It never occurred to me that they were being racist or that I should ask the barman to sling them out.:(
    Do you spend much time in Germany?
    Here's a recent comedy on the German national broadcaster. Maybe bimble would care to translate it to you.

    No. But I do think that teachers should be aware of such characteristics and try to encourage more civil, altruistic and socially aware behavior wherever needed. and certainly not just in germany for that matter.
     
  20. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    From what I’ve learnt about German local law - in terms of tenants rights and employment law, at least - I’d say the U.K. is faaaaar more neoliberal and has been for a very long time.
     
  21. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    What a lot of utter racist nonsense.
     
  22. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    Why do you think that's racist? If I said that I generally find Russians to be a bit cold and chary while Jamaicans tend to be warm and hearty, would that be racist?
    These are observations. I've heard far worse from Germans about themselves and indeed it was Germans that first opened my eyes to how the underlying issues in their society possibly make up the national psyche that underlay some of their historical misdemeanours. There are other characteristics the Germans have that I highly respect.
    I was following on from bimble 's question on whether their is a collective German 'will to power'. Do you think the Germans have a will to power? Does the very question incur racism for you?
     
  23. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    Generalisations about groups of people based on stereotypes, cant't imagine how that might stray close to the racism line.
     
  24. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    bloody wingeing poms
     
  25. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    like I said before, people don't hold back about the british on here. Must be the low self-esteem the british have of themselves. Funny characteristic that one.
    And then there's the welsh, irish & scots in the football forum when england play. like a klan meeting it is.
     
  26. TheHoodedClaw

    TheHoodedClaw "Ride me sideways" was another one

    Go to bed, you're drunk. (That's the most charitable interpretation I can manage)
     
    William of Walworth and paolo like this.
  27. Wookey

    Wookey Playful as a pussy cat

    Oh, you're Australian!!

    That explains everything!! :D
     
  28. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    Howso?... (careful , no ugly generalisations about our antipodean friends now)
    :p
     
  29. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    All people of all nationalities make fun of each other. The vast majority of all people of all nationalities are racist / xenophobic.

    Judging by all the Brexit talk it seems low self-esteem is one fault the English can't be accused of.

    Did I mention some of my best friends are black?
     
  30. Kaka Tim

    Kaka Tim Crush the Saboteurs!

    C,mon - what pocket science is only the same as stating that -

    the irish are thick
    scots are tight fisted
    the spanish are lazy
    the greeks smell
    and the welsh shag sheep.

    so not racist at all.
     
    William of Walworth and B.I.G like this.

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