Is Argentina going to default?

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by Quartz, Jul 10, 2014.

  1. Quartz

    Quartz Eclectic contrarian plebeian

  2. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    possibly
     
    Quartz likes this.
  3. Sprocket.

    Sprocket. Regret, transience and disillusioned fortitude..

    At this moment in time I am afraid the British Government would only retaliate if the attackers were Muslim.
     
    dylanredefined likes this.
  4. dylanredefined

    dylanredefined Not a house elf a tiger

    Probably the only people they could get to attack the Falklands. Argentina don't have the capability other than a suicide attack and even that would end up as debris in the Atlantic. When you have to approach over 400 miles of empty ocean against someone with the latest kit. You either have to be very good or have lots of stuff. Argentina isn't and doesn't.
    I thought the default was against people who brought up the debts in some weird financial scheme and are now demanding extra back or something.
     
    Sprocket. likes this.
  5. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    It's a very serious challenge but I think that with some solid defence Germany can be beaten.
     
  6. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    Its interesting. When it was all going wrong in Europe a few years back and the bail-outs happened some used Argentina as a good example of a 'can't pay won't pay approach'. It would seem that the international markets are so tightly interwoven and managed that this approach cannot ever work in the long term.

    As for the Falklands, there's no chance although there may be some more rhetoric. That being said I'm pretty sure Britain is one of the nations Argentina owes money to (The Paris club or something?) and indeed one of the ones that agreed to write down a lot of that debt.
     
  7. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank Ridin' a Stutz Bearcat, Jim

    Only me who thought this thread was about the world cup final then?
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  8. Sprocket.

    Sprocket. Regret, transience and disillusioned fortitude..

    No, but I read the OP!
    But I totally understand as suffering from World Cup fever myself.
     
  9. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank Ridin' a Stutz Bearcat, Jim

    Wasn't there a recent court ruling in New York that said Argentina had to pay out for a load of already-defaulted bonds at something like 20 times the price they were bought for? I hope the traders who are helping to bankrupt a whole country are pleased with themselves.
     
  10. JTG

    JTG Angry about not being able to be an astronaut.

    If they owe us, I'm sure we'll take the Cup as full settlement :hmm:
     
    imposs1904 likes this.
  11. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    elbows likes this.
  12. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank Ridin' a Stutz Bearcat, Jim

    Christina de Kirchner has been renationalising stuff without compensating corporations, I'm sure there are plenty of very powerful people who want to make an example of Argentina because of that.
     
    coley, likesfish and The Pale King like this.
  13. likesfish

    likesfish officaly hardest and most tooled up urbanite:)

    Cdk is hated by vast number of argentinians as corrupt and useless and lots of people dont give a fuck about las malvinas.
    The hedge funds are dodgy as fuck they brought defaulted loan bonds and then thought they could get full value out of argentina
     
  14. Belushi

    Belushi 01 811 8055 R.I.P.

  15. friedaweed

    friedaweed Sitting down for a wee

    What does this mean in corned beef terms:confused:
     
  16. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce

    Not a lot. Argentina making the fairly financially prudent decision to sack off paying a debt of $1.5bn that will inadvertently cost them $120bn when their other creditors come asking for the same deal. There's not going to a be a global effect because the markets are expecting it, and Argentina's not had a brilliant credit rating ever since the last default, so it'll not meaningfully affect their access to global capital markets.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014
    Yuwipi Woman and friedaweed like this.
  17. likesfish

    likesfish officaly hardest and most tooled up urbanite:)

    It all comes from "product of south america" :D These days you cant get argie corn beef in the uk:D
     
    friedaweed likes this.
  18. goldenecitrone

    goldenecitrone post tenebras lux

    I can get excellent Argentinian steaks from my local butcher's though.
     
    friedaweed and likesfish like this.
  19. friedaweed

    friedaweed Sitting down for a wee

    :thumbs: Cool. As long as it stays under £1.20 a tin I don't mind where it comes from:hmm:
     
    likesfish likes this.
  20. DownwardDog

    DownwardDog Riding a Brompton with a power meter.

    Paul Singer of NML Capital bought $600m+ of Argentina's debt for about $50m. Singer (and the courts) took the reactionary view that Argentina should actually pay back the money they borrowed on the contracted terms.
     
  21. el-ahrairah

    el-ahrairah forward communism, forward gerbils!

    how do the courts intend to enforce this view, one wonders?
     
  22. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank Ridin' a Stutz Bearcat, Jim

    You make it sound as though it's somehow right and proper and in keeping with the natural order of things for someone to make 600 million dollars from a 50 million outlay.

    You could perhaps argue that Argentina should pay the money back, although the people they borrowed it from probably didn't in any meaningful sense have the money to being with, but it's hard to argue that people who bought up debts which were going cheap because the creditor had already defaulted have any moral right to claim payment in full. And it's not like your mate refusing to pay you back a fiver because he'd rather put it in the fruit machine instead; this is an entire country with millions of people to look after versus some private sector money men who, if they had 50 million to buy up the debt in the first place, probably aren't going to go hungry any time soon.
     
    SpackleFrog, coley, mather and 5 others like this.
  23. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank Ridin' a Stutz Bearcat, Jim

    I always understood that Uruguay was the big name in processed beef products in that region.

    Fray Bentos pies are named after Uruguay's second city.
     
  24. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce

    Also, Argentina's problems date back to debts incurred under the military dictatorship which were rolled over, so...
     
    J Ed likes this.
  25. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank Ridin' a Stutz Bearcat, Jim

    ...so the Americans should by rights pay those off. Then maybe think about making proper repaprations to all the other countries who lived under brutal dictatorships for decades thanks to US-backed coups.
     
    likesfish and el-ahrairah like this.
  26. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce

    Come now, let's not forget the role of all those lovely IMF and World Bank types who strongarmed successive Argentinian governments into implementing successive rounds of austerity in the 1980s which made the problem worse, and then proposed a round of financial derugalation and privatisation in the 1990s to totally destabilise their economy!

    But the real victims here are the financial speculators.
     
    Casually Red, Riklet and SpookyFrank like this.
  27. likesfish

    likesfish officaly hardest and most tooled up urbanite:)

    Tbf argentina has had problems for the entire 20th centuary starting off rich in natural resources plently of land etc etc not involved in any wars until 1982 still managed to fuck things up massively :facepalm:
     
  28. yield

    yield zero

    Since you mentioned the courts I thought this was interesting from a few weeks ago.

    Argentina’s Default, Vulture Funds and the US Courts
    Judge Griesa's Impact Upon CDS, Derivatives, and Sovereign Bond Markets
    Counterpunch July 15, 2014
    "The US judiciary should not establish US foreign policy, nor is it a world court."
     
  29. DairyQueen

    DairyQueen Well-Known Member

    Lets be clear about this though. The nationalisations that are occurring are hitting the big (mainly Spanish) companies that have inefficiently exploited South American markets for years. Argentina already defaulted on its debt in 2001. The Americans are basically forcing another default on the same debt. This has nothing to do with mismanagement and everything to do with politics. Lets see if the hedge funds manage this trick with a Eurozone country.
     
    mather and SpookyFrank like this.
  30. DairyQueen

    DairyQueen Well-Known Member

    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/q-a-whats-behind-the-battle-over-argentinas-debt/

     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014

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