Is anyone going to this year's Reclaim the Night?
- Thread starter innit
- Start date
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
What are you on about? The march is clear in purpose - it is women organising to say that they find violence against women unacceptable.
When you mention 'violence against men', what do you mean? Explain yourself. What would validate this march in your eyes then, if you do actually accept that marching on a clearly defined political basis is a good thing?
When you mention 'violence against men', what do you mean? Explain yourself. What would validate this march in your eyes then, if you do actually accept that marching on a clearly defined political basis is a good thing?
well ive never criticised any feminist event on urban before and ive helped promote more than a few, i dont have a problem with women only actions at all
i have political difficulties with this thread, im interested in discussing it, im already having an argument with my best mate (whos one of the most active and sorted feminists out there) and ive taken on board some of what she says, but i still dont agree, i think this event promotes the politics of fears, im sorry, i just do
if thats because im a man maybe so, although at least one other woman has offered a similiar viewpoint
imo if an event is posted in p&p anywhere but the announce thread then the politics of that are up for discussion, its a political discussion forum after all
if some are so precious that they cannot respond to criticisms with constructive debate, then i guess ill just keep rowing with my mate
im sorry if you feel youve been having the same argument for 20 years, i feel like that about many things
but my criticisms were quite specific, and only aimed at the politics of this single event rather than women only actions or the wider feminist arguments in general, with which i fully agree
Well I'll be there! 
Heading out to meet my lady friends in a bit.
I dunno... we still live in such a *mans* world in so many respects, there are still gender inequalities in so many different areas of our lives, women have been excluded from so many different things for so long, over the years... I have to say, whilst not necessarily 100% agreeing with the reasoning behind making it a women only even (they say they want a safe place for women... I understand this, but it does kind of give the message that *all* men are somehow inherently evil, which isn't the best message IMO) with all this in mind, there is a part that simply feels *nice* that it is a women only event. For the reasons stated.
The flip side of this is that I would love to see men supporting something like this. I think these are likely to be men that I'd get on with pretty well. Hopefully they'll make it to the after party.
Heading out to meet my lady friends in a bit.I dunno... we still live in such a *mans* world in so many respects, there are still gender inequalities in so many different areas of our lives, women have been excluded from so many different things for so long, over the years... I have to say, whilst not necessarily 100% agreeing with the reasoning behind making it a women only even (they say they want a safe place for women... I understand this, but it does kind of give the message that *all* men are somehow inherently evil, which isn't the best message IMO) with all this in mind, there is a part that simply feels *nice* that it is a women only event. For the reasons stated.
The flip side of this is that I would love to see men supporting something like this. I think these are likely to be men that I'd get on with pretty well. Hopefully they'll make it to the after party.
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
don't see a problem with this myself (as a man)
i met one of the women involved in organising this, on a 2 day domestic violence course, she was sound, not man hating at all (i was the only fellah on the course, so it could have been a bit intimidating, but wasn't)
i met one of the women involved in organising this, on a 2 day domestic violence course, she was sound, not man hating at all (i was the only fellah on the course, so it could have been a bit intimidating, but wasn't)
but from the polemic on their website it doesnt really feel as though thats what this event is about, it's seems to me to be falsely promoting the idea that all women are terrified of walking the street at night - and the idea that women are scared to walk through the west end at 7.30 is nonsense
i find a disempowering because it suggests that women are scaredy little flowers who need to be protected, presumably by more police, probably men
it also fails to acknowledge that a lot of non-sexual violence women face on the street is quite likely to be carried out by other women
if they were walking into some of the dodgier areas around town i might think it had some more validity, the cultural split with the sex workers someone mentions seems entirely plausable to me, the organisers appear to be explicitly anti-porn and anti-prostitution, something which immediately renders this event exclusive, many feminists and many women dont feel like that
it also suggests a further, concealed political reason for walking through soho
i worked on the stop the hiding festival in streatham, which was also about raising awareness male (and female) violence .. the reason it happened in streatham was because it has the highest incidence of domestic violence in london
this what about actively challenging male violence in a community, providing practical support and raising awareness ... it created a space where the issue could be discussed, by the community at large ... far more effective i feel
i find a disempowering because it suggests that women are scaredy little flowers who need to be protected, presumably by more police, probably men
it also fails to acknowledge that a lot of non-sexual violence women face on the street is quite likely to be carried out by other women
if they were walking into some of the dodgier areas around town i might think it had some more validity, the cultural split with the sex workers someone mentions seems entirely plausable to me, the organisers appear to be explicitly anti-porn and anti-prostitution, something which immediately renders this event exclusive, many feminists and many women dont feel like that
it also suggests a further, concealed political reason for walking through soho
i worked on the stop the hiding festival in streatham, which was also about raising awareness male (and female) violence .. the reason it happened in streatham was because it has the highest incidence of domestic violence in london
this what about actively challenging male violence in a community, providing practical support and raising awareness ... it created a space where the issue could be discussed, by the community at large ... far more effective i feel
I might not agree entirely with the organisers' rhetoric, but this is bollocks.smokedout said:
That's not what this march is about at all, they've made it pretty clear that it's about women acting collectively, about showing that they aren't afraid, if they were marching to demand more police then don't you think they might have mentioned it on the fucking website? Mother of all
I never said it wasn't clear in purpose, you weirdo, I said that I think that they are being narrow and essentialist in their aims and their political theory.Paulie Tandoori said:
By violence against men, I mean violence which is committed against men. It's not fucking difficult.
I never said it wasn't valid, I just said that I disagree with some parts of the political premise of this march.
but there is no clearly defined political basis, what are the demands, even if this is just supposed to be an act of empowerment then how does it empower?
will it empower women to walk the streets alone at night after this event is over, will it empower men and women to take a stand against violence, and if so how?
will it empower the sex workers in soho, who will undoubtably lose money that night
or is it just a middle class girls night out for those whose idea of political activism is sponsoring a child in africa or putting out the recycling
Japan is a fine example - more recent uninterrupted years of democracy than many european countries and older than many countries in the world, capitalist and developed way before the 1900s arrived, nowhere near being a police state and very low levels of sexual and physcial violence compared to almost any country you care to mention.smokedout said:
Having a "150% increase" in crime doesn't mean much when you start with such a low baseline.
But if you object to Japan then there are plenty of other examples to show that the "economic system" doesn't determine the levels of violence within a society: you will simply not be able to show any connection between economies being "capitalist" and a higher level of violence in those societies.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
smokedout said:
Hi innit - hope you're still there!
I started off thinking 'nope, not going' but by the time I got to this point in the thread I'm thinking 'hell YEAH!
'Might not be as politically effective as a burning a couple of stereotyped effigies on an isolated bonfire 10 minutes walk away from a major fireworks event - but you never know.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
In Bloom said:
You're talking bollocks. You're like a fucking child.
You quite deliberately slip out of making an attempt to do anything other than sneer.
You obsfucate and object without offering anything positive at all.
When I was a child, we looked for reasons why we should do something, rather than reasons why we shouldn't. You should think about that and you might grow.
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
thats an out and out lie paulie, sorryPaulie Tandoori said:
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
trashpony said:Like I said - I didn't start the thread. Perhaps you should pm innit asking her if she realised that if she posted in here, she should expect very robust debate from the boys who run the forum?
thats shouldn't be neccessary, and i reject that 'boys run the forum'. Boys remain the majority in all apsects of politcal life, this also should not need pointing out to somebody who is a feminist; i assume its something you would like to change
And don't be disingenuous, saying 'I'm not out to get you but ... ' Please
i'm not. Take it badly if you like, but this is not me at my intolerant at all; this is because i'd be well up for some positive enagaement with women's issues, and do beleive there are many which are worth lookin at in their own right
I'm not remotely unhappy. I just really am bored with having the same conversation over and over again for the past twenty years. I'm well aware that I haven't really made any decent arguments - it's because I can't be botherered to argue about it. then i don't see why you are bothering to respond really.
When I was young, lacking in confidence and unsure of my political terminology, the level of attack I used to get from blokes who were involved in organised politics completely put me off engaging with them politically - they bullied and undermined me. I'm really sorry to see that nothing has changed over the last twenty years and the far left is as it always has been, and this forum is the same - populated by a bunch of bullies I'm afraid.
i wouldn't want to speak for ur past experiences, cos i'm neither responsible for the left or (by ur implication) other men, but judging from this thread u either got an unbelievable amount of off-key stick from them and it has totally pissed you off with politics, or u took genuine criticism badly at the time too. Again, if its about balance of numbers; something i assume u want to change, but that won't happen by writing off any and all questions and criticisms
What you've basically just said is 'if you can't cope with being ripped apart, don't bother posting in here'. to an extent, yes, yes i am. Its always a risk you take. Remember other peoples points posted so far too; this could have gone in announcements, that this forum is mainly - almost exclusively - for debate, and finally that a quick look at the boards could have demonstrated things can be pretty hostile here now and then
What a fucking shame.
with which i concur, for diammetrically opposite reasons
And you wonder why there's tumbleweed in here ...
no, i don't. I know very well why there are not many posters in here anymore, and its got nothing to do with angry debate (which is wasn't initially anyway, and is not in may case) and everything to do with the foundation of other boards. That is a it of a shame, but these boards are still pretty good.
For the last time, i'm not out to get you. I'm interested to see what else the LFN do.
I'm not going to post on this thread any more, as not only are things travelling in circles but there are several posts stating that thye aren't reading other peoples arguments and simply charcterise this as some bizarre girls v. boys match.
from indymedias report
"On arriving at the infamous Spearmint Rhino lap dancing club, women passed the building in a chrous of boos."
the agenda is clear then
"On arriving at the infamous Spearmint Rhino lap dancing club, women passed the building in a chrous of boos."
the agenda is clear then
lights.out.london
Black Flag
Dubversion said:
No.
It seems like the kind of separatist drivel I endured in pubs in Nottingham and Southampton and London in the 80s from dykes-who-should-have-known-better. But hey! I'm a man and what do I know!
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
lightsoutlondon said:
Might as well shout it from pubs eh?
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
I jolly well hope they were told that this was a women's march and they should scram.
alsoknownas
some bloke
God, what a miserable thread. Honestly. Women organise an act of unity against violence and intimidation, and you'd think they'd shot someone.
Anyway, good luck to women organising against violence and threats of violence, wherever they occur, and however you can mobilise. I can't believe so much energy was spent ripping this apart. No wonder active protest is so threadbare these days.
Reclaim the night.
Anyway, good luck to women organising against violence and threats of violence, wherever they occur, and however you can mobilise. I can't believe so much energy was spent ripping this apart. No wonder active protest is so threadbare these days.
Reclaim the night.
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
you know what? in between all this idiocy an actual decent reason to 'reclaim the night' happened; the same reason which created the first RTN. Some evil nuttter started murdering women.
an RTN was organised to defy the atmosphere of fear and the advice for women to leave the streets of the area at night. Spot on, and it was well supported.
an RTN was organised to defy the atmosphere of fear and the advice for women to leave the streets of the area at night. Spot on, and it was well supported.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
TopCat said:
Oh do shut up. In a bad mood are ya, just prowling around looking for a fight?
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