Is anyone going to this year's Reclaim the Night?

[TeeJay]

or are you just having a pop?

Does In Bloom ever do anything else apart from whinge and whine about other people demos and campaigns? It is his raison d'etre on u75 isn't it?

 

[baldrick]

I'd suggest that the focus on rape and violence against women is, to some extent, a mistake. It's not just young women who feel unsafe walking around late at night. Honestly, I think that LFN's conception of patriarchy is a bit simplistic, in so far as it portrays patriarchy as a one way thing, something which is inflicted upon women by men (hence separate organisations, women only marches, etc.).

That said, I'm not trying to have a go, just raise a few points about this that occurred to me while I was browsing their website.

So you're not saying their approach is wrong, you're saying... what, exactly?

My interpretation of your words seems to be entirely accurate.

 

[TeeJay]

Yes, but saying that and then saying that the solution is to march around central London at night somewhat suggests that this is where the threat lies.

Again, I just think that limiting stuff like this to rape/violence against women is a fucking shame.

"...Somewhat suggests..." ?

Luckily the average member of the general public probably won't see things like you do, and since that is the target audience, that is what matters.

Maybe you'd like to organise some kind of campaign about violence generally?

What exactly would you to do draw attention to this issue? maybe for once you will make some kind of positive and constructive suggestion - even if it is in theory or just a 'for example' - rather than your normnal output of negativity, sneering and put-downs about absolutely anything that anyone else does, anywhere and about any issue (unless it has the official backing of the Anarchist Federation or unless you are directly involved yourself).

 

[In Bloom]

So you're not saying their approach is wrong, you're saying... what, exactly?

My interpretation of your words seems to be entirely accurate.

Yes, and I'm not saying that the whole thing is completely worthless. If I lived nearby, I'd probably pop along to the rally at some point.

I just think that it's always worth discussing the limitations of any given action, not least because there's so much hostility to even thinking about it on the left these days.

http://www.talent.ac.uk/

 

[TeeJay]

In bloom - please, just GO AWAY

I know you think your views are terribly important and that nothing you've just said has EVER previously been thought of by man, woman or beast, but you're totally wrong.

I agree with some of what you've said, but i wouldn't dream of disrupting a women's liberation thread with argument about how totally wrong and thoughtless they are.

Do you have ANY clue how fucking awful and patronising that is?

Start your own thread, child.

Seconded.

 

[baldrick]

So you're NOT saying it's completely worthless? Just a little bit worthless then? And you might pop along to the rally if you had time?

Good lord, if all supporters were as lukewarm as you, feminists might as well shoot themselves in the head.

fucks sake.

 

[In Bloom]

"...Somewhat suggests..." ?

It always pays to understate

Luckily the average member of the general public probably won't see things like you do, and since that is the target audience, that is what matters.

Anything to back up your blanket assertions?

rather than your normnal output of negativity, sneering and put-downs about absolutely anything that anyone else does, anywhere and about any issue (unless it has the official backing of the Anarchist Federation or unless you are directly involved yourself).

1. I've posted up stuff supportive of a myriad of events and actions, from the civil service strikes to the Saneyah (sp?) relief centre in Lebanon, so besides anything else, you're just factually wrong
2. What "negativity, sneering and put-downs" have come from me on this thread? Besides a few comments in response to the wailing and gnashing of teeth that a few people keep directing at me.
3. Obviously if I'm directly involved in something, I'm going to support it. Similarly, if I support something, I'm reasonably likely to be in some way involved in it. Any other statements of the obvious you'd like to make?

 

[In Bloom]

Just a little bit worthless

Do me a favour and stop putting words in my mouth, eh?

 

[TeeJay]

In Bloom would pop along to a women only rally?

In disguise maybe? Or maybe just in an extra-sized hoodie?

 

[TeeJay]

Anything to back up your blanket assertions?

That is simply my view of what the average member of the public will think, versus the rubbish you come out with.

Any other statements of the obvious you'd like to make?

No, I think I have summed up most of the relevant things about you already. No need to repeat them.

Great job at making yourself and your incessant and pointless whining the central focus of the thread by the way. I am guessing that trolling the u75 protest/direct action/activism forum brings some kind of meaning to your life, but why can't you just go and photocopy some more of your class struggle leaflets or something instead?

 

[baldrick]

Do me a favour and stop putting words in my mouth, eh?

lol.

so what does "not completely worthless" mean then, brainiac?

 

[Dubversion]

and once again an attempt do something useful - even if it is flawed - descends into internecine squabbling on urban 75

 

[In Bloom]

a women only rally?

Join the mixed rally from 8pm at University of London Union, Malet Street (nearest tube Goodge Street)

Dear oh dear teej, did you even read the announcement, or did you just fancy having a pop at me?

 

[In Bloom]

and once again an attempt do something useful - even if it is flawed - descends into internecine squabbling on urban 75

Fair point, I'll leave it alone this thread.

 

[baldrick]

and once again an attempt do something useful - even if it is flawed - descends into internecine squabbling on urban 75

to be fair though, we could have ignored the childish attention-seeking

 

[TeeJay]

Please use my correct username In Bloom.

7. Racism/personal abuse/defamatory postings/gratuitous swearing etc is not allowed. We welcome lively and robust debate and have no problem with swearing (where appropriate) but posters using these forums to re-enact infantile playground battles will be clipped around the ear by the milk monitor. Please respect people's privacy and refrain from posting up personal details without their permission. Do not piss about with user names or refer to people by their real names (unless they already appear in their user name, of course). Threads that descend into personal insult-a-thons will be binned.

Thanks.

 

[baldrick]

Fair point, I'll leave it alone this thread.

so when a man asks you to leave the thread, you do so? interesting.

 

[In Bloom]

One last post on the thread, since some people can't resist having a go

so when a man asks you to leave the thread, you do so? interesting.

Dub didn't ask me to leave the thread, I decided to leave.

And you didn't ask either, by the way, you told me to leave. You were quite rude about it, actually.

 

[TeeJay]

Bye then.

 

[innit]

and once again an attempt do something useful - even if it is flawed - descends into internecine squabbling on urban 75

I very nearly didn't start the thread because I remembered the exact same 'conversation' happening a couple of years ago when kea started a thread about it.

Then I decided I shouldn't let male oppression stifle my freedom of speech

It's so predictable - the question I asked was, is anyone planning to attend the event, not what do a bunch of men think about it (as if I cared), so I was determined not to defend the march.

But I would like to say that I think it's important to recognise women as a group with the right to speak and decide for themselves. Does anyone question gay rights groups being run by gay activists, or think that Southall Black Sisters should be run by a bunch of white people? Women are the best people to lead a campaign for women's rights although we welcome men's support and most of us believe that men benefit as well.

 

[baldrick]

Dub didn't ask me to leave the thread, I decided to leave.

And you didn't ask either, by the way, you told me to leave. You were quite rude about it, actually.

In bloom - please, just GO AWAY

Why don't you try reading other people's posts instead of what you want them to have posted?

 

[trashpony]

I had an appointment at my antenatal clinic today. In the loos, they have a little bag of sticky dots on the wall. They are so you can stick them to your urine sample bottle if you would like to talk to the midwife alone without your male partner being there. Each doctor/midwife is also instructed on their domestic violence instruction sheet to try and have one session on their own with the woman.

Violence against the woman you've impregnated. Nice

If I were one of those women, I'd be very glad this event is women only.

 

[smokedout]

ok, im scared but im gonna say it

i think the strategy of this event is completely misguided, i think it disempowers rather than empowers

the chances of being raped or assaulted by stranger as a woman are ridiculously low, your more likely to get run over by a bus

the (patriarchal) media has created a myth and made some women terrified to even walk the streets, its bullshit, statiscally you're far more likely to attacked as a man - although thats not my argument, this isnt about gender

fear is the most commen mechanism for constricting empowerment, its why we allow our civil liberties to be eroded day after day, this event, regardless of the intentions behind it is utilised by the media to increase the fear that some women (and men) feel when walking the streets

it sells papers, and handily keeps the population disempowered in the bargain

weare all arrogant enough to imagine ourselves as victims in some great drama, the reality is that these things dont happen on the streets, rape and sexual abuse is mundane, thats the real horror of it

its our partner, our parent,our friend who will injure us by and large, not some unseen sinister force - to promote the idea that the streets arent safe to walk only further promotes the idea that the streets are not safe to walk ... even though they are quite likely to be safer than your own front room

who cares about truth, long live the spectacle

this event increases fear and therefore disempowerment and alienation of women, it may provide a sticking plaster for those who attend for a few hours, but in reality it is about as counter-revoltionary as you could get

it strengthens rather than weakens patriarchy

 

[Treacle Toes]

I would, but I'm erecting a 20ft high statue of a vagina in my garden that night.

 

[The Black Hand]

Good luck. I hope it does something to raise the fact that so few rapes are reported and so few of them end up with a successful prosecution.

The sentencing of rapists is pathetic. And the law needs to be changed to ensure more rapists are stopped.

This is sensible... then again he's not a politico. Those who have ideology often try to fit their scheme to the real world which doesn't come off... I fully support autonomous attempts at protest/resistance/expression and whatever cos these won't have the boring politco alpha males in control at least...

 

[TeeJay]

the chances of being raped or assaulted by stranger as a woman are ridiculously low, your more likely to get run over by a bus

O RLY?

"In 1991 there were 1,651 pedestrians injured when they were hit by a bus or coach"

source

"The most recent figures show that of the 11,766 allegations of rape made in 2002 ... A separate report by London Metropolitan University said that the majority of rapes went unreported and the number of assaults could be as high as 47,000 a year."

source

Maybe not the best or most reliable figures or sources (I only looked for about five minutes) and the rape/assualt figures need to be unpacked slightly (ie stranger versus non-stranger) but the order of magnitude is clear and is the exact opposite of what you state.

In other words you don't really have a clue do you? You just love spouting off stuff that sounds good but is based on no actual hard information.

As for the 'young men get assaulted more' bit: maybe that has something to do with them actually daring to go out at night and at the weekend, walk home by themselves and so forth? Any group that is so scared that they won't even venture out after dark is hardly likely to actually be mugged more often than a group that goes out all the time.

 

[smokedout]

know, you dont have a fucking clue do you

btw why do you always resort so such vitriol and personal abuse, it says more about you than the people you criticise

im talking about women being attacked and raped/assaulted in the street, i thought i made it quite clear that your front room, or i guess bedroom is far more dangerous than the streets

the reason women being attacked and raped on the streets has such a high media profile, and therefore makes so many people so scared, is that it happens very rarely

if it happened everyday youd never hear of it, much like most cases of domestic violence, or indeed rape

thats why i believe that this events just further promotes a media driven fantasy that only serves to disempower

Any group that is so scared that they won't even venture out after dark is hardly likely to actually be mugged more often than a group that goes out all the time.

very few of the women i know or have met are afraid to go out after dark, its a media driven piece of bullshit that they are, which sadly sometimes becomes a self-fulfilling phrophecy

 

[TeeJay]

...im talking about women being attacked and raped/assaulted in the street, i thought i made it quite clear that your front room, or i guess bedroom is far more dangerous than the streets...

So you are saying that this is less likely than being hit by a bus? Any chance you are going to try back this claim up?

As for the 'fear factor' - this is common to all kinds of risks: people are far less bothered by risks that they see as being controllable to some extent. or which are 'voluntarily taken', than by unpredicatable and involuntary risks:

For example the difference between driving a car and being driven by someone else, choosing to smoke oir breathing passive smoke - or in your example being careful about busses when crossing the road versus the fear of being attacked when walking alone at night.

The difference way people feel about these things doesn't come down solely to the statistical chances of them happening - people are not so scared of being hit by a bus, maybe because they understand about being careful when crossing the road etc - ie they think they can 'contol and limit' the risks, or at least make some kind of risk assessment about their behaviour. The fear of being attacked at night is greater because of a perceived randomness, a lesser degree of 'control and limitation' and so forth.

This is a psychological phenomena that goes across all kinds of issues related to different risks and isn't simply about an oppressive patriarchy oppressing people with scare stories.

if it happened everyday youd never hear of it, much like most cases of domestic violence, or indeed rape

Oh? So if my friends, family, colleagues and neighbours were being attacked and raped all the time I wouldn't hear about it then? Sorry but this is just a load of nonsense.

Here's some more 'media driven pieces of bullshit' for you smokedout:

"One in 20 women in England and Wales has been the victim of rape, according to Home Office statistics. The new figures suggest 167 women are raped every day, but only one in five attacks is reported to the police." source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2146077.stm

...and globally, according to Amnesty International:
One in five women assaulted

I know you are trying to make a career out of being contrary and arguing against everything mainstream on principle - I often enjoy your blogs posts and posts here - but in this case you really are being a bit of a fuckwit IMO.

 

[smokedout]

So you are saying that this is less likely than being hit by a bus? Any chance you are going to try back this claim up?

yes and yes, although being hit by a bus was supposd to be a bit of an analogy

i aint gonna google it, im going to sleep soon, i had this argument before and happen to know im right

around 700 women a year are killed by currect or former partners, about id guess, id have to check, but about 20 are killed in random attacks on the street

im not saying rape and sexual violence isnt a problem, im suggesting this event is missing the target by a long way and will onlty serve to encorage fear

This is a psychological phenomena that goes across all kinds of issues related to different risks

yes it is, but it doesnt make it any less bullshit for that, and that bullshit is driven by the media

we should be fighting to challenge that, not encourage it

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Do you have ANY clue how fucking awful and patronising that is?

errrrr! to who?