Is anarchism a joke?

[Bakunin]

Even the Poll Tax in the area I was in at the time saw Anarchists do sod all. On the day of the march the coach I organised to London was full. Where were the local Anarchists? Oh sorry, bit torn mate, you see we had organised a hunt sab and well, you know it was already organised. Still hope you have a good demo.

Well, seeing as they had already organised another action, they were hardly sitting about twiddling their thumbs, were they?

And you don't tend to see many Swappies taking an interest in that sort of action so I'd say they were within their rights to do what they had already laid on, especially as Anarchists are sadly thin on the ground in many areas and bodies are needed on a regular basis.

This typical arrogance and ignorance as displayed by Swappies on a regular basis. If it isn't something laid on by your beloved CC then it isn't worth doing or is to be shouted down.

 

[JTG]

But actions count for nothing compared to organising a coach to some march

 

[Bakunin]

But actions count for nothing compared to organising a coach to some march

Ah yes, I forgot.

Direct action is elitist and must be condemned.

It's shuffling round London, grimly trooping from A to B under the watchful eye of police and their friends in the SWP acting as stewards, that really matters.

I'm sure the people of Iraq and Afghanistan are delighted to have the support of the SWP, it must really make up for the dead, injured and 'rendered' relatives and friends.

 

[Groucho]

But actions count for nothing compared to organising a coach to some march

Some march?

Excuse me but a local hunt sab or the major anti-poll tax demo. You know, the one the police turned into a riot. You remember the one where the rioting fucked Thatcher.

They didn't go to Welling either on the grounds that the ANL was an 'SWP front'.

 

[Bakunin]

Some march?

Excuse me but a local hunt sab or the major anti-poll tax demo. You know, the one the police turned into a riot. You remember the one where the rioting fucked Thatcher.

They didn't go to Welling either on the grounds that the ANL was an 'SWP front'.

The ANL WAS an SWP front, and you know it as well as anyone here. I was IN the ANL, so I know it too.

So, a few Anarchists, people you seem to despise and loathe, didn't go on your march because they already had an action planned. Big deal. If you have as much contempt for Anarchists as you seem to then that shouldn't have been too much of a problem for you.

After all, can't have people offering an alternative to paperselling and A to B marches, now can we?

 

[JTG]

Some march?

Excuse me but a local hunt sab or the major anti-poll tax demo. You know, the one the police turned into a riot. You remember the one where the rioting fucked Thatcher.

They didn't go to Welling either on the grounds that the ANL was an 'SWP front'.

I'm well aware of what happened on that march cheers. twas more a comment on the general attitude of the Trot left towards what's important and what isn't.

And the ANL was an SWP front so I don't blame them. I was a member of the ANL, I do know.

 

[october_lost]

Anarchism isnt a joke. Its an effective way of organising minus the drawbacks of centralised cliques and hierarchies. Its freedom in practice and when its done right its applicable to so many people.

A lot of what passes for theory and action is turning over and over in circles and its genuinely sad to see this, thats why short fallings should be discussed as wide as possible for the hope of re-alignment. Truth be told that aside from LCAP and a few local groups we punch massively below our own capacity and have zero influence outside of a subculture. The reason for this is that when theres a scarcity of experience,and understanding of things like organisation, stratergy and tactics then its easy to go through the mills of using the same old modes of doing things. There are as many pitfalls as there should be operating right now, but when a correct way of doing things works it will spread as I think the growth of LCAP as shown.

 

[Alright]

In an anarchist society, free enterprise business would have to be banned, otherwise capitalistic ways would just roll right over anarchism.

 

[northernhord]

No

 

[geoff64]

Some march?

Excuse me but a local hunt sab or the major anti-poll tax demo. You know, the one the police turned into a riot. You remember the one where the rioting fucked Thatcher.

They didn't go to Welling either on the grounds that the ANL was an 'SWP front'.

Sorry mate, like everyone else has said. I know it too from direct experience of being heavily involved in the SWP when ANL Mk2 was launched. It was clearly an SWP front.

I recall a group (probably the Leninist - now the CPGB) who organised an ANL meeting in East Ham in the mid-90's. I mean if the ANL is not the preserve of the SWP why not have open ANL meetings where all the public can go? The SWP in Newham - and I was at the meetings - organised to turn up in force at the meeting, vote themselves into positions of authority on this new "ANL" committee and then voted to abolish it... The Leninist were just being mischevious but they made their point.

But you're right people went to Welling (twice in the space of a few months - the first organised by Militant was a good day out too and got much closer to the bookshop) for lots of reasons - not because the ANL was an SWP fron (which it was ... )

 

[biff curtains]

no, Anarchists have not mobilised significantly against the war. How many Anarchists organised walkouts in their workplaces risking the sack as this guy did?

What sort of fucking div would organise a workplace strike against the fucking war?

 

[Bakunin]

What sort of fucking div would organise a workplace strike against the fucking war?

Outside of wrkplaces related to the military and arms trade I don't see what use it is, to be honest.

 

[lights.out.london]

In an anarchist society, free enterprise business would have to be banned, otherwise capitalistic ways would just roll right over anarchism.

How so?

 

[october_lost]

What sort of fucking div would organise a workplace strike against the fucking war?

Our taxes pay for the war effort, which is an obvious diversion from social services etc. Im shocked this as been asked TBH

 

[Raw SslaC]

Didn't 25,000 dockers in the US go out on strike over the war this mayday? I think so.

 

[Nigel]

What sort of fucking div would organise a workplace strike against the fucking war?

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7445815#post7445815

 

[Nigel]

How so?

I'd be interested to here something from Anarchists on this one.
An alternative to Marxist Economics.

 

[danny la rouge]

Is anarchism a joke?

No, but anarchists frequently are.

It's people, innit: sometimes they're numpties.

 

[october_lost]

I'd be interested to here something from Anarchists on this one.
An alternative to Marxist Economics.

On what level?

Since we dont anticipate organising a central economy its not going to be in the same ball park. Im not sure if you were being coy or what. But their are left libertarians who have written extensively about capatilist economics and possible economic models of organising.

 

[spanglechick]

nothing to add - just that i keep thinking the thread title say "is anachronism a joke" - which is quite deep, and inpenetrable, and keeps confusing me - til i work out, time after time, that it actually says "anarchism".

 

[danny la rouge]

On what level?

Since we dont anticipate organising a central economy its not going to be in the same ball park. Im not sure if you were being coy or what. But their are left libertarians who have written extensively about capatilist economics and possible economic models of organising.

Marx's economics are largely a critique of capitalism. This is where he is strongest and spends most time.

I'm not sure we need an anarchist to rewite Capital or Value, Price and Profit. What's the point?

 

[october_lost]

Marx's economics are largely a critique of capitalism. This is where he is strongest and spends most time.

I'm not sure we need an anarchist to rewite Capital or Value, Price and Profit. What's the point?

There isnt one.

Marx understanding of capital is a good starting point, but if were talking about economic blueprint for a future society, then we have to look somewhere else. Abraham Guillen has some material in print about anarchism organising the economy.

 

[danny la rouge]

Marx understanding of capital is a good starting point, but if were talking about economic blueprint for a future society, then we have to look somewhere else.

Absolutely.

I have to say, I like Guillen's work on the Spanish collectives.

 

[Nigel]

On what level?

Since we dont anticipate organising a central economy its not going to be in the same ball park. Im not sure if you were being coy or what. But their are left libertarians who have written extensively about capatilist economics and possible economic models of organising.

Proudhon argued for a national bank, Kropotkin touched on it lightly; some stuff in Fields Factories & Workshops, during the Spanish Civil War the CNT were very much into the idea of Barter as a form of mutual aid and exchange.

Free market ideas were much in favour with many American Anarchists, Tucker, Thoreau.

Colin Ward argues from what I can work out of re-reading stuff like Anarchy in Action for some kind of self employed form of exchange.

As far as Macro-Economics is concerned, most Anarchists are forced to submit to Marxist concepts of Economics (Capital). Bakunin in the last years of his life was very concerned about getting a Russian publication of it out. But I would have thought that most Anarchists would have found the way that Capital is structured too deterministic. Their is also the concept by some Anarchists that economic conditions don't always create social structures, in fact I've heard some argue completely the opposite(e.g. there were individuals in a group called syndiclist fight who broke away from DAM in the mid 1980's who put this point of view across).

 

[HarrisonSlade]

Been involved in anachism for a number of years. Where are we going wrong?.
To me anachism has become a movement of getting pissed up in a bar talking bollocks then going back home again. The reason why the bnp are winning is because they are pro-active and we just get pissed and call them nazi scum.
If we don't wake up soon ,The bnp are going to be to big to stop.

Many people within the anarchist "movement" aren't actual anarchists. Many are people who like ranting a lot, and being as judgemental as the fascists they claim to loathe. Anarchy, to me is about disestablishing this society, and allowing everyone to create a new one. Very much like the early Americans, but without having to kill the troublesome natives.

 

[Nigel]

Found this interesting webpage.

http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=6960&print_page=true&include_comments=true

Not heard of the phrase Parecon(participatory economics), or Michael Albert or Robert Hanel

 

[bluestreak]

but without having to kill the troublesome natives.

oh i dunno. a few shipments of smallpox-coated blankets to the home counties wouldn't go amiss.

 

[danny la rouge]

Found this interesting webpage.

http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=6960&print_page=true&include_comments=true

Not heard of the phrase Parecon(participatory economics), or Michael Albert or Robert Hanel

Really? Albert is one of the editors of Z Mag. His Parecon books have been reviewed in the British press. I can lend you one if you like.

 

[chico enrico]

anarchists should get some nice looking girls on the covers of their mags then maybe they'd sell more.

 

[Nigel]

Really? Albert is one of the editors of Z Mag. His Parecon books have been reviewed in the British press. I can lend you one if you like.

A brief outline of his ideas would suffice!