Indeed
Is anarchism a joke?
- Thread starter CUMBRIANDRAGON
- Start date
Indeed
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
yes!
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bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Also, I was thinking about this the other day. Anarchism is partially about being the opposition. You may not be able to change the world, but it's saying things that need to be said. At a time when people won't stand up for themselves out of fear or indirection, or because they've got it good enough that a state can push forward undemocractic and illiberal politics without opposition, anarchists should be the opposition when there is none, questioning, shouting, making the points that others aren't making and exposing the flaws in the system. If nothing else, it's an impetus for reform, even if it's not for revolution.
Basically, even if the anarchist future is naive and unworkable, we need to be pointing out when the emperor has no clothes, challenging the notion that political change is going to come out of the goodness of politicians hearts.
*insert v pic here... governments should be afraid of their people, not people afraid of their governments
*
Basically, even if the anarchist future is naive and unworkable, we need to be pointing out when the emperor has no clothes, challenging the notion that political change is going to come out of the goodness of politicians hearts.
*insert v pic here... governments should be afraid of their people, not people afraid of their governments
*
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Basically, what I'm saying is: should we be only allowed to criticise if we have a 100% valid replacement model? Obviously not. But if the media and the politicians only represent one basic viewpoint with quibbling over the minutiae then we need to speak out. We don't have parties, we don't have manifestos, we don't seek to replace the power structures with our own, we're not after people's money, or votes, we're utopians and at the very least, no matter what else we do, we should not be shut up in our ceaseless criticism of the lies that surround power structures. We need to be voices of truth, I guess. And if we can't speak as one, which isn't going to happen, we should at least be trying not to undermine each other or we become a joke.
It is and was the idea of disbursing the movement into elitist actions by small exclusive groups that we opposed.
The idea that many thousands of Anarchists would have launched impressive direct action that would have stopped the war if only the SWP had not stood in their way is nonsense.
The fact is, if they meant it they would just have got on and done it. But no the articulation of abstract demands were only about denouncing the SWP and were not intended as a guide to action.
Roads were blocked by demonstrators, but the Anarchists were down the pub.
Workers walked out of my place, but were denounced by Anarchists as 'agents of the state'. What would you have us do? asked one of my colleagues. 'Resign, give up work' was the answer.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Workers walked out of my place, but were denounced by Anarchists as 'agents of the state'. What would you have us do? asked one of my colleagues. 'Resign, give up work' was the answer.
Sure they were groucho. Sure they were.
A more hamfisted and transaparent lie you very rarely see on here.
I don't tend to tell lies. As it happens that was not the only time that PCS members have been denounced in such terms by Anarchist types either.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Sorry. Total lie.
Try and get the at work/not working thing straight while you're at it.
Try and get the at work/not working thing straight while you're at it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Workers walked out of my place, but were denounced by Anarchists as 'agents of the state'. What would you have us do? asked one of my colleagues. 'Resign, give up work' was the answer.
Did you really think that anyone on here would buy this? t makes me wonder what you tell people in 'real life'.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Anarchy In One Bedsit
You don't think that anarchism is caught in a subcultural ghetto then.
What are you going to do on the High Street, that would be any different from anywhere else?
You don't think that anarchism is caught in a subcultural ghetto then.
What are you going to do on the High Street, that would be any different from anywhere else?
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
It is and was the idea of disbursing the movement into elitist actions by small exclusive groups that we opposed.
The idea that many thousands of Anarchists would have launched impressive direct action that would have stopped the war if only the SWP had not stood in their way is nonsense.
The fact is, if they meant it they would just have got on and done it. But no the articulation of abstract demands were only about denouncing the SWP and were not intended as a guide to action.
Roads were blocked by demonstrators, but the Anarchists were down the pub.
Workers walked out of my place, but were denounced by Anarchists as 'agents of the state'. What would you have us do? asked one of my colleagues. 'Resign, give up work' was the answer.
Evidence please.
What do you want evidence of?
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
You made a lot of assertions, without supporting evidence, in your previous post. I'd like to see some supporting evidence to back them all up.
Did you really think that anyone on here would buy this? t makes me wonder what you tell people in 'real life'.
That is my recollection of the conversation, and I tend to have a pretty good memory for such things.
Nice post.
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
a very good point, very well expressed.
that's esssentially what i didn't like about that 'revolting london' leaflet. it was like a leaflet PROMOTING what was basically class struggle anarchism but kinda tagged onto the mayoral election.
it should JUST have been a leaflet slagging off the candidates, calling them wankers, gobshites etc and not bothering with pushing the (anarchist) party line which just puts folk off. if anything it should have been entirely oppositional to all the other political groupings pushing a political line but by default would probably have been regarded as no different by those it (i would imagine) hoped to attract.
something which, sadly, i think was rather reflected in the turn-out.
still, to their credit, at least the did do something.
Groucho said:
Surely, if you dispute this it is for you to provide evidence of the SWP succesfully thwarting these grand plans the Anarchists had.
Groucho said:
Again. My point - or assertion - is that the point is to do things. Anarchists attack the SWP for doing it the wrong way. Well go on then you do it right. If not then shut the f*** up.
Groucho said:
Yes, I am sorry but when anti-war protesters were blocking roads in Whitehall there was a distinct shortage of Anarchists. The school kids were more militant that your lot (actually, they were more militant than my lot too). But, yeh, I suspect your lot were down the pub bemoaning the lack of proper militant action while the school kids were getting a kicking from the police.
Groucho said:
You want evidence? Like I record every conversation that ever takes place in my life. Or else I must be a liar right? Because no Anarchist would ever denounce Civil Servants for working in the Civil Service would they?? It could never happen could it? Funny that because as I say it is not the only time I have heard that argument.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Where I live and work we (anarchists) were arguing for a broad diversity of tactics. I was very active in the STWC, taking part in, organising, and building for all the actions and events the SWP people were backing, but I also continually argued the case for direct action of various kinds (mass and small group, military targets, arms trade targets, 'town targets' like road blocking). I and others were consistently an vociferously shouted down (no exaggeration) by SWP members who misrepresented what I was calling for in very similar terms to those used by you here.
Do you really believe that? The fact is there was quite abit of @ and other direct action against the war. I think our point here is that there would've been more had the SWP accepted the need (and potential) for building some quite serious and effective direct actions and put their quite considerable influence behind calling for them (in addition to other events, marches, etc). Instead they attacked those who argued for a diversity of tactics, and dissuaded many people from carrying out DAs. This was a big mistake, and a real missed opportunity.
Again with the disbelief that you actually typed that. Are you high? Do you have an excuse for that gross lie? Can't actually be bothered to type any more after re-reading this bit.
winjer
holocene death beat
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
As I suspected.
Cobblers
This is utterly dishonest rubbish. The StW group I was involved in frequently saw anarchists planning direct action against the war and being shouted down/ignored by the Trot left in favour of organising coaches to more A to B marches in London.
Luckily the group I was in had a pretty high proportion of anarchists and independent lefts to Swappies so they rarely got their own way.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Sorry Groucho, my experiences disagree with yours too.
The Worthing Against War group was set up by anarchists, so that kind of set the pattern. Though in at least one local paper interview the local SWP paper seller claimed SWP responsibility for setting it up!
The Worthing Against War group was set up by anarchists, so that kind of set the pattern. Though in at least one local paper interview the local SWP paper seller claimed SWP responsibility for setting it up!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Groucho needs to start listening to people like me. I told him what would happen with RESPECT and it happend to the second and last dot. I told him him about the BNP and i was right to the second and last dot. Maybe you'll be right his time Groucho and i'll be wrong.. Then you'll not need to make up such daft self serving scenarios. Odd that it works out that you lot were right on both these things and that i was wrong all along.
The all seeing party that can't even see what'is in front of it. I wonder why.
The all seeing party that can't even see what'is in front of it. I wonder why.
scumbalina
Scummy Mummy
The SWP claiming to have done something that others did? Trying to take over entire movements and get all the credit for themselves? Well I never...
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
The SWP claiming to have done something that others did? Trying to take over entire movements and get all the credit for themselves? Well I never...
Indeed.
I may need a strong cup of tea and a lie down, having recieved such shocking news for the first time.
Listening to your constant negativity about everything? Yes it is true that if you do something you can mess up. If you do nothing but carp from the sidelines you can claim never to have made a mistake. But it is just that you have never done anything.
I am sure that in some locations Anarchists dod stuff but that was not the general picture.
Even the Poll Tax in the area I was in at the time saw Anarchists do sod all. On the day of the march the coach I organised to London was full. Where were the local Anarchists? Oh sorry, bit torn mate, you see we had organised a hunt sab and well, you know it was already organised. Still hope you have a good demo.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Listening to your constant negativity about everything? Yes it is true that if you do something you can mess up. If you do nothing but carp from the sidelines you can claim never to have made a mistake. But it is just that you have never done anything.
I am sure that in some locations Anarchists dod stuff but that was not the general picture.
Even the Poll Tax in the area I was in at the time saw Anarchists do sod all. On the day of the march the coach I organised to London was full. Where were the local Anarchists? Oh sorry, bit torn mate, you see we had organised a hunt sab and well, you know it was already organised. Still hope you have a good demo.
Makes up a lie. An utterly transparent one at that -extends it into the past. Bril;linat.. Waffles. Makes it worse, bring in point about the poll tax that they fucked up on big time (pleas stop your acrtions they are worthless and cannot achievr anything - only the action olf the civil servants can halt this tax etc).
Honestly, groucho -there's no need to lie.
