Is 50 Cent a 21st century Uncle Tom?

[Johnny Canuck3]

50 Cent continues a tradition that was alive back in the time of big-lip-smaking, grinning black Minstrel shows.

Whites are more comfortable with caricatures of blacks, instead of fully-human blacks trying to relate on the same level, the same playing field as whites.

Rappers are super horny, violent, dialect-talking things that prance and caper about. Might as well be Stepin Fetchit up there. It's what whites think blacks are, and they're comfortable when those near-men are entertaining them with their sort-of poetry with the heavy beat. That's what blacks do.

Just like they play football good, or jump real high in basketball, because of their overdeveloped quads, probably something to do with the jungle.

Black men are those guys in the videos, and black women are those women in bikinis with the big butts in the videos. If you show them like Cosby did, ie the Huxtables, well, that's just funny. It's a comedy.

 

[kyser_soze]

50 Cent continues a tradition that was alive back in the time of big-lip-smaking, grinning black Minstrel shows.

Whites are more comfortable with caricatures of blacks, instead of fully-human blacks trying to relate on the same level, the same playing field as whites.

Rappers are super horny, violent, dialect-talking things that prance and caper about. Might as well be Stepin Fetchit up there. It's what whites think blacks are, and they're comfortable when those near-men are entertaining them with their sort-of poetry with the heavy beat. That's what blacks do.

Just like they play football good, or jump real high in basketball, because of their overdeveloped quads, probably something to do with the jungle.

Black men are those guys in the videos, and black women are those women in bikinis with the big butts in the videos. If you show them like Cosby did, ie the Huxtables, well, that's just funny. It's a comedy.

Erm this may well apply to Canada and the US but it's not the case in the UK and Europe mate - but then the US is a country where dance music has to be called 'electronica' or 'rave' because 'dance' sounds too gay, and where RAWK! fans burned disco 12"s back in the 70s...

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Erm this may well apply to Canada and the US but it's not the case in the UK and Europe mate - but then the US is a country where dance music has to be called 'electronica' or 'rave' because 'dance' sounds too gay, and where RAWK! fans burned disco 12"s back in the 70s...

50 cent is part of the US media, US culture. His image is shaped by his, ie american culture, not yours. His image is understood in the context of his culture, not yours, into which he's merely an import.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nice bit of cultural analysis there, Johnny. Remind me to get some notes from you the next time I have to write a cultural studies piece.

 

[kyser_soze]

I think I might have to go scurrying off to see if there's any demographic info around about ethnicity and music purchasing too...

 

[camouflage]

The mysoginist "artist" is in the news again because an advert featuring him holding a baby while having a firearm tucked in to his back got dissed by the ASA. Why this is much more offensive than other pictorial glorifications of violence featuring him is not explained.

Without having researched it I expect most of the shareholders and bosses of his company are white.

Does Mr Cent perpetuate a racist image of black men as violent women haters? With his generally tuneless songs, often vile lyrics and a film with a capitalist mantra title (Get Rich or Die Tryin) is he not just an Uncle Tom pawn showing we havent progressed as much since Rosa Park's day as we might like to think?

I see no reason to call him an Uncle Tom, a pretty fucking redundant and useless title anyway since slavery ended in America.

Fiddy Cent is merely a stupid cunt I'd say, chuck him on the pile with the others.

 

[camouflage]

millions of incredibly talented artists.

Where are these millions hiding. Talent and hip hop hardly go together

JLH, BB and Albert King, Hendrix and of course Robert Johnson, now there was talent. Artists whose music is already over 70yrs old and still awesome and respected and growing up for these guys was a lot harder than any of todays shit. Plus they did'nt disrespect their own

You sir, are a Reactionary and a Philistine!

See the damage done by the likes of fiddy Cent? Ignorant gold-drippin cocks like him allow Reactionaries like this smash-g8 fella to come along and totally diss an art form that is incredibly challenging and expressive. Just because all you hear is pop-trash and you can't make out thre words because it's all abit too fast and confuses you and therefore if you don't understand it how can it have any merit...

I'd like to see you try and rap, compose lyrics, some rappers do it free-style, others write, some manage both....

Fuck it smash-g8, why not go ahead and dismiss Poetry, Lyricism and any other form of Verbal Creativity as talentless rubbish because it's not 70 years old. In fact, lets Ban all music except Bethoven, and dusty old Jazz, and any other dum-da-ditty beloved of the Establishment...

 

[kyser_soze]

You sir, are a Reactionary and a Philistine!

See the damage done by the likes of fiddy Cent? Ignorant gold-drippin cocks like him allow Reactionaries like this smash-g8 fella to come along and totally diss an art form that is incredibly challenging and expressive. Just because all you hear is pop-trash and you can't make out thre words because it's all abit too fast and confuses you and therefore if you don't understand it how can it have any merit...

I'd like to see you try and rap, compose lyrics, some rappers do it free-style, others write, some manage both....

Fuck it smash-g8, why not go ahead and dismiss Poetry, Lyricism and any other form of Verbal Creativity as talentless rubbish because it's not 70 years old. In fact, lets Ban all music except Bethoven, and dusty old Jazz, and any other dum-da-ditty beloved of the Establishment...

Sorry, but he's entitled to offer the opinion that he thinks hip hop is shite, and it doesn't make him a reactionary. TBH, while there is good hiphop out there, as a mainstream musical genre it's been creatively bankrupt since the late 90s - some would probably argue before then.

Of course, his 2nd paragraph doesn't help matters either - he sounds exactly like the old conservatives who denounced jazz, the blues and R&R as being noise and made by talentless idiots when compared to the sublime sound that classical music offers...and even uses the same 'It's X old and we're still listening to it'

Cos if that's a way to guage quality than Thomas Tallis and the monks who used to write medieval plainsong are light years ahead of anyeone else, even that vulgar upstart Mozart.

Toss thread, toss OP and toss arguements...

Ban all music except Bethoven, and dusty old Jazz

And here you show youself up as big a wanker as he is...

 

[Fruitloop]

50 cent is part of the US media, US culture. His image is shaped by his, ie american culture, not yours. His image is understood in the context of his culture, not yours, into which he's merely an import.

The borders of the US media empire extend way beyond the national boundaries; I reckon that more than half of all pop-culture here is U.S. imports. In any case, whatever intentions 50 Cent might have, the finished product itself is just as decontextualised for his suburban US target audience as it is for us furrn'rs.

 

[camouflage]

Sorry, but he's entitled to offer the opinion that he thinks hip hop is shite, and it doesn't make him a reactionary. TBH, while there is good hiphop out there, as a mainstream musical genre it's been creatively bankrupt since the late 90s - some would probably argue before then.

Of course, his 2nd paragraph doesn't help matters either - he sounds exactly like the old conservatives who denounced jazz, the blues and R&R as being noise and made by talentless idiots when compared to the sublime sound that classical music offers...and even uses the same 'It's X old and we're still listening to it'

Cos if that's a way to guage quality than Thomas Tallis and the monks who used to write medieval plainsong are light years ahead of anyeone else, even that vulgar upstart Mozart.

Toss thread, toss OP and toss arguements...

And here you show youself up as big a wanker as he is...

Fuck you prick.

Hes entitled to his opinion, and I'm entitled to mine that he is some sort of Reactionary. I criticesed his veiws, I never said he's not allowed to have em, the thought never occured to me.

"ban all music but dusty old jazz..." it's not that I dislike Jazz, or Bethoven, rather that (as you say) his line of thinking means the only legitimate music must be very old and dusty indeed or it's just young-uptsart noise. In fact the word "jazz" used to mean rubbish.

anyway you're a cunt, a dick-spittle and a knob-gobbet, don't talk to me, cunt.

 

[kyser_soze]

Did you actually read what I'd written? Aside from the line of yours I quoted being extremely unclear as to whether you meant you thought Beethoven and jazz were shite (which it can be read as) I pretty much agree with what you've said about him - my post essentially sayd 'Disliking hiphop doesn't make him a reactoinary, but rattling on about past masters does'

Hope that makes it slightly clearer. BTW, you were far more polite in person at Unsound (or Offline Xmas, I can't remember which it was when Wrysmile (racist Australian) introduced us...

 

[camouflage]

The borders of the US media empire extend way beyond the national boundaries; I reckon that more than half of all pop-culture here is U.S. imports. In any case, whatever intentions 50 Cent might have, the finished product itself is just as decontextualised for his suburban US target audience as it is for us furrn'rs.

I think the American cultural onslaught is by far the most insidious and damaging aspect of their campaign of world dominance.

It makes me sick when I see African kids in Africa acting like gangsters from Amerrica's Projects, they're taking on America's idea of what black people are about. I can tell you that in Nigeria at least they have plenty enough contemporary culture of their own, and don't need to all start wearing baggy jeans and dripping gold, but that is what Amrerica does. Another difference, look at the American/rapper-wannabees that you get in Britain, and how rubbish and second-rate their rap tends to be (abit like French rock music) compared to the likes of the Streets guy, and others from the UK MC scene, sounds good dunnit, that's because on is the genuine product of the homegrown culture of modern Britain, and the other is just second rate American immitation, and it doesn't even lift anyone up, just encourages kids to wish they lived in gang-torn crapped-up neigbourhoods so they too can feel like the thugs in the videos.

The same thing is occuring throughout parts of Asia, the ME, SA. The American future is a sea of drug-dealing gun-totting biatch-slapping materialistic Nike-wearers. So, same as today but with more Nike.

 

[kyser_soze]

I think the American cultural onslaught is by far the most insidious and damaging aspect of their campaign of world dominance.

It makes me sick when I see African kids in Africa acting like gangsters from Amerrica's Projects, they're taking on America's idea of what black people are about. I can tell you that in Nigeria at least they have plenty enough contemporary culture of their own, and don't need to all start wearing baggy jeans and dripping gold, but that is what Amrerica does. The same thing is occuring throughout parts of Asia, the ME, SA. The American future is a sea of drug-dealing gun-totting biatch-slapping materialistic Nike-wearers. So, same as today but with more Nike.

And now your trotting out the old cultural imperialism argument...I assume that you think the Blues and Jazz are both 'bad' things to come from the US as well, let alone that nasty ole rock'n'roll...

How often do you see African kids, in Africa, behaving like junior gangstas? Been out there recently and conducted a survey, or are you reliant on snatched images of affluent Africans in the UK/US and on TV? Same goes for the ROW - yes there is an influence of US culture around the world, just as there is of French, British etc, and in the next 50 years you'll see the increasing influence of India and China around the world as their importance increases - and quite frankly a world full of Bollywood and tai chi done to somewhat cheesy ballroom dancing music sounds about as appealing as fiddy and his Nikes...

 

[top_biller]

I struggle to even think of 50 Cent as a rapper to be honest, but there you go. Unfortunately, the "hip hop is shit" brigade rarely hear anything outside of the artists which you'll see making up the display racks at HMV so their opinion on what they perceive hip hop to be is similar to mine.

I totally agree with Kyser referring to all the other black acts (and it goes further than hip hop) on white owned record labels. The Public Enemy reference is enough to undermine the whole theory.

 

[camouflage]

Did you actually read what I'd written? Aside from the line of yours I quoted being extremely unclear as to whether you meant you thought Beethoven and jazz were shite (which it can be read as) I pretty much agree with what you've said about him - my post essentially sayd 'Disliking hiphop doesn't make him a reactoinary, but rattling on about past masters does'

Hope that makes it slightly clearer. BTW, you were far more polite in person at Unsound (or Offline Xmas, I can't remember which it was when Wrysmile (racist Australian) introduced us...

"And here you show youself up as big a wanker as he is..."

Yeah, I am generally a polite person, but I respond to people as they respond to me.

 

[camouflage]

And now your trotting out the old cultural imperialism argument...I assume that you think the Blues and Jazz are both 'bad' things to come from the US as well, let alone that nasty ole rock'n'roll...

How often do you see African kids, in Africa, behaving like junior gangstas? Been out there recently and conducted a survey, or are you reliant on snatched images of affluent Africans in the UK/US and on TV? Same goes for the ROW - yes there is an influence of US culture around the world, just as there is of French, British etc, and in the next 50 years you'll see the increasing influence of India and China around the world as their importance increases - and quite frankly a world full of Bollywood and tai chi done to somewhat cheesy ballroom dancing music sounds about as appealing as fiddy and his Nikes...

Yeah I'm on about cutural imperialism, my experience of Africa is based on the fact that my family comes from there and I have lived there for long enough to have my opinions about the place (fuck, I wrent to school there for awhile) So make your assumptions elsehwere.

Nothing competes with Hollywood, or the US corporate Music scene. I consider this a bad thing in terms of recent culture, I'm not talking about jazz, I'm probably not even talking about the stuff that American people do in art or music or what-have-you that people elswhere might like and wish also to do. I'm talkking about the relationship between American culture and capitalism, the corporation, and also how American issues with its history and it's division, now seem to seek to reproduce the same historical scars and issues etc, elswhere.

So case in point, Gangsta-thuggery reflects American attitude about black men being violent criminals that never aspire to anything that can't be won in a street fight, it also helps sell Nike material (worth killing for at one point), promotes various other life-style/bling items and explicits that money is the most important thing (Cash Rules Everything Around Me CREAM Get The Money, Dollar Dollar Bill Yaal), and encourages young black kids elswhere to aspitre to this semi-criminal image that values only guns and money, oh and sees women as sex objects and manikins for wearing gold rings and diamonds and other expensive things... and nothing more.

 

[Fruitloop]

And now your trotting out the old cultural imperialism argument...I assume that you think the Blues and Jazz are both 'bad' things to come from the US as well, let alone that nasty ole rock'n'roll...

How often do you see African kids, in Africa, behaving like junior gangstas? Been out there recently and conducted a survey, or are you reliant on snatched images of affluent Africans in the UK/US and on TV? Same goes for the ROW - yes there is an influence of US culture around the world, just as there is of French, British etc, and in the next 50 years you'll see the increasing influence of India and China around the world as their importance increases - and quite frankly a world full of Bollywood and tai chi done to somewhat cheesy ballroom dancing music sounds about as appealing as fiddy and his Nikes...

All music has political and social content, and 50 cent's music is undoubtedly putting across a pretty rank message - it's basically a glorification of gangster capitalism and the law of the jungle. The extent to which people actually adapt their behaviours based on it will depend on a lot of factors, but in terms of the meaning of the musical product itself, what's to like?

The US has been uniquely effective in modern times at exporting its culture - the cultural reach is even longer than the economic and military one, which is unusual IMO. I think it will takes decades at least before anyone has a hope of catching up, and the extent of the cultural hegemony that the US enjoyed in the late C20th may turn out not to be repeatable at all.

 

[kyser_soze]

The biggest movie industry in the world is in India and at present the only reason it's not the dominant movie-making force on the planet is because of the massive size of the internal market - US films are released there and are popular but nowhere near that of the indigenous film industry. Same applies to the PRC and Japan - US music and films are popular but they still don't do as well as local acts (and anyone who crticises teen bands in the US and Europe should check out Idoru girlgroups in Japan for vacuousness and disposability!!)

Anytime a country exports it's culture it will export bad and good stuff - yes the mainstream commercial stuff is shite and negative, but you can say the same about the mysogny and homophobia of ragga, which comes from a culture that has developed it's own form of brutally violent gangsterism.

To say that 'nothing competes with Hollywood or the US Corporate Music scene' is simply incorrect and not a true reflection of what the world is like.

 

[nino_savatte]

Originally Posted by Fruitloop
All music has political and social content

Does it? I haven't identified any in the songs of the Pussycat Dolls or McFly.

 

[camouflage]

The US has been uniquely effective in modern times at exporting its culture - the cultural reach is even longer than the economic and military one, which is unusual IMO. I think it will takes decades at least before anyone has a hope of catching up, and the extent of the cultural hegemony that the US enjoyed in the late C20th may turn out not to be repeatable at all.

I agree, but us humans are so naturally fractious, we tend to make things our own pretty quik. If Hollywood and the rest of the US cultural machine were to break down tommorow, a thousand variants of the last cultural product they sent out would spring up the day after, each a uniquely indigenous take on whatever it was.

 

[Fruitloop]

What I'm talking about is specifically it's global reach, i.e. beyond the confines of its own culture. In this respect US culture is unparalleled, IMO. NZ has a pretty good homegrown music scene, but the point is that in NZ you have the local music and US music, in India you have Bollywood and US films, in Japan Idoru alongside US artists - that's what makes US culture's global impact unusual.

I want to make it clear that I'm not attacking hip-hop as a genre - musical genre is generally too slippery a beast for generalised criticism, and as you point out there's a Dead Prez for every thug-u-like clone like 50 Cent (well, about one to every dozen, but the point still stands). The criticisms were levelled at a specific artists output and marketing, which demonstrate an essentialised and fundamentally negative picture of black people and black culture, and this is something that it's right to criticise - it's basically propaganda, technically speaking.

 

[camouflage]

The biggest movie industry in the world is in India and at present the only reason it's not the dominant movie-making force on the planet is because of the massive size of the internal market - US films are released there and are popular but nowhere near that of the indigenous film industry. Same applies to the PRC and Japan - US music and films are popular but they still don't do as well as local acts (and anyone who crticises teen bands in the US and Europe should check out Idoru girlgroups in Japan for vacuousness and disposability!!)

Anytime a country exports it's culture it will export bad and good stuff - yes the mainstream commercial stuff is shite and negative, but you can say the same about the mysogny and homophobia of ragga, which comes from a culture that has developed it's own form of brutally violent gangsterism.

To say that 'nothing competes with Hollywood or the US Corporate Music scene' is simply incorrect and not a true reflection of what the world is like.

I see what you're saying, and it tempts me to start another thread...

Consider this, people tend to assume that if a Bollywood star isn't known in the West, it is a sad reflection of the fact that Bollywood isn't getting the attention it deserves, people ask "When will aBollywood star be a houshold name in the UK like... fucking... Arnold Swarzenegger" to me, that reeks of the assumption that the West, and America specifically, exists at the centre of the world...

All Roads Lead to Hollywood!

I disagree with that, I totally accept that Bollywood is vastly succesful and the Chinese film industry too probably, it's easy, deep in the heart of the English speaking world to think that if it's not well known in the West, it's struggling and barely exists and 'ahhh, poooor, bless, they want to make films too' I find that a patronizing attitude.

But still, the whole dolla/gansta/biatch axis sticks in some places, and where it sticks it damages places and people that don't have to be damaged, and where it sticks it's still rubbish. Maybe I'm just too anti-American and without realising it, now complulsively identify the US as the trouble-maker in any debate. If Brixton was Americanized tommorow, it'd go from what it is now to all out drugs wars, drivebys, it'd turn into a whitey-free zone because they'd be capped as soon as they entered the place, because this is how things are don in the US of A, there'd be no more nice Urban75 Brixton gettogethers... so agree with me now or pay the consequences.

I feel like a bloody Imam now. Incidently, I also blame the Great Shai'taan for screwing up Jamaica as well, it wasn't like it is now back in Marleys day. When Peter Tosh died, that was the end of old Jamaica, and the start of Crack-strip One Jamaica. Where's you think "Yardies" originally came from, CIA-backed Rightwing Anti-Socialist Political Militia anyone? Lets kill some dredlock-hippies/rastas/communists whatever the fuck they are, why not.

Once Jamaica's political system was thuroughly pwned by the usual interests, they can be desposed of, and a set free to be criminals and have a splash around in the crack/cocaine market, protection and extortion, police corruption.... welcome to the dark side Jamaica, you are now an officially recognised affiliate of the Land of the Free.

 

[kyser_soze]

NZ has a pretty good homegrown music scene,[/qoute]

So you're talking about a uniquely indigenous sound, or a local take on R&R?

The foundation of most of modern music COMES from the US. Just as in the 17, 18 and 19th centuries European music was the dominant cultural force (which is why you've got classical orchestras the world over and the classical repetoire is performed everywhere) - even if it weren't supported by a massive marketing machine, the basis of contemporary music is American! So to say it's 'unique' ignores history.

The main issue is that in Europe we are more saturated by it then many others, esp in the UK as well because of the common language and it's often difficult, if not impossible, to see the wood from the trees when looking overseas at local music scenes.

BTW, apols for any eggyness - I've got a headfull of cold and reading a post on another thread I've realised it's making me quite baity today...

 

[Fruitloop]

So you're talking about a uniquely indigenous sound, or a local take on R&R?

There are unique elements, I'd say, but it's heavily influenced by what else is around in the culture i.e. US imports.

The foundation of most of modern music COMES from the US. Just as in the 17, 18 and 19th centuries European music was the dominant cultural force (which is why you've got classical orchestras the world over and the classical repetoire is performed everywhere) - even if it weren't supported by a massive marketing machine, the basis of contemporary music is American! So to say it's 'unique' ignores history.

Sorry, I don't agree. Personally I don't usually talk about music coming from anywhere, but if there's an important parent then it's probably blues, which comes from a fusion of African music and the chorale harmony of the Lutheran hymnal etc. Folk-music traditions from Europe feed into US protest song (Woodie Guthrie etc) and blend with local elements there, but the same process is basically happening all over the continent and neighbouring islands (like with Chilean 'nuevo cancion'). The question is why US versions of these cultures have a currency way beyond the borders of the country itself, and that has more to do with the way the states exports its culture (along with other more obvious kinds of imperialism) than with a particular musical form being uniquely north-american.

The main issue is that in Europe we are more saturated by it then many others, esp in the UK as well because of the common language and it's often difficult, if not impossible, to see the wood from the trees when looking overseas at local music scenes.

The saturation of US popular culture follows you pretty much everywhere, IME, and I've been to some pretty far-flung places.

BTW, apols for any eggyness - I've got a headfull of cold and reading a post on another thread I've realised it's making me quite baity today...

no probs, can identify with the cold thing...

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The borders of the US media empire extend way beyond the national boundaries; I reckon that more than half of all pop-culture here is U.S. imports. In any case, whatever intentions 50 Cent might have, the finished product itself is just as decontextualised for his suburban US target audience as it is for us furrn'rs.

Not true.

 

[nino_savatte]

Not true.

How so?

 

[Bajie]

I reckon he has had botox - the guy does not have any facial expressions at all. Even his smile is more like a sneer. One of the monotonous rappers I have ever heard. But rather than being an 'uncle tom' for the white controlled music business I think he is just a bit of a twat, who always has been a bit of a twat. Loves his gran though, aww bless.

There is general hypocrisy though, as his image is more fantasy than any thing else, like the hundreds of violent television programs and films than the American media churns out each year. But there is no protest aginst their relentless portrayls of macho violence, glorifying guns and the pursuit of money as the highest motive (and if there is, it is not so high profile). So in a way I think it says a lot mroe about the people who complain about pricks like 50 Cent than about him. As pop-rap is just another branch of the entertainment industry now and rarely bares any resembelance to reality with it's adolesent fantasies about women and who's got the biggest dick(gun).

Any why is skin colour always part of it? no one ever goes on about how Britney Spears in perpetuating the myth that all blonde white women are stupid. I dont see that because he is black his music and image somehow brings the "black race" into disrepute.

 

[Ing_soc]

right. wanted to respond to quite a lot of different points but couldn't think of a way to remember them all so decided on a rant instead.

several people have already pointed out that not all rap/hip-hop is gangsta bling orientated. altho much commercially successful stuff that is exported round the world is, i'd like to point out that one of the most successful hip hop artists of recent times is Kanye West, with tracks like Jesus Walks, Diamonds are from Sierra Leone etc. Not to say that he is politically motivated in the same way as Chuck D et al or even shuns wealth, but to call him a gun-toting womanising moron would be way off the mark.

as for the UK hip hop scene, yes a lot of american impersonating stuff sounds shit but as my dad points out, until the beatles this country was churning out crap after crap elvis impersonations until a 'british' sound was discovered. The UK grime scene, bashment, garage and UK hip hop would not be what it is today without the influence of the american sound. ask any artist from mike skinner to dizzee rascal to miss dynamite and they will list american artists highly amongst their biggest influences. what is interesting is that many british artists in these genres make more 'conscious' points in their lyrics, that is talking bout stuff that actually matters as opposed to the 'i've got lots of money now suck my knob' 50 pence stuff. there are loads of yank artists that do the same but for some reason they're (generally) less well exported.

someone mentioned Ded Prez earlier tho. Granted, they've made some wicked tunes but as for their politics i'd rather have a cup of tea with louis farrakhan tbh.

another thing that is interesting about this subject is - how much criticism goes on about the materialism of rappers? even those who don't focus on it, like Missy Elliott for instance are criticised massively for their enormous wealth. Personally i don't think she needs that many shoes, or cars or fuckin SUVs - but how come its ok for every other successful pop star in the world to walk around wearing clothes and jewellery that cost £100000s but as soon as a rap star does it its wrong? to my mind they come under disproportionate criticism - at least do all of hollywood while you're at it like.

the other main thing is this idea of gangsta rap being a middle-class white fantasy. yes to some extent it is, tapping in somehow to repressed teenage angst, with an outlet for anger and a feeling of belonging. to me its no different really from the punk thing, or the mod thing, or the current 'emo' kid thing, goth thing whatever. dressin like 50 cent won't make people go around shootin people - that's the same line of argument as Marylin manson being responsible for Columbine. Yep, 50 cent's a knob. But he's not just a white fantasy. black kids love the scene equally, and not only the negative aspects. hip hop is an incredibly expressive art form and contains bullshit within it as well as other (more positive) things.

Cheers

 

[mears]

I see what you're saying, and it tempts me to start another thread...

Consider this, people tend to assume that if a Bollywood star isn't known in the West, it is a sad reflection of the fact that Bollywood isn't getting the attention it deserves, people ask "When will aBollywood star be a houshold name in the UK like... fucking... Arnold Swarzenegger" to me, that reeks of the assumption that the West, and America specifically, exists at the centre of the world...

All Roads Lead to Hollywood!

I disagree with that, I totally accept that Bollywood is vastly succesful and the Chinese film industry too probably, it's easy, deep in the heart of the English speaking world to think that if it's not well known in the West, it's struggling and barely exists and 'ahhh, poooor, bless, they want to make films too' I find that a patronizing attitude.

But still, the whole dolla/gansta/biatch axis sticks in some places, and where it sticks it damages places and people that don't have to be damaged, and where it sticks it's still rubbish. Maybe I'm just too anti-American and without realising it, now complulsively identify the US as the trouble-maker in any debate. If Brixton was Americanized tommorow, it'd go from what it is now to all out drugs wars, drivebys, it'd turn into a whitey-free zone because they'd be capped as soon as they entered the place, because this is how things are don in the US of A, there'd be no more nice Urban75 Brixton gettogethers... so agree with me now or pay the consequences.

I feel like a bloody Imam now. Incidently, I also blame the Great Shai'taan for screwing up Jamaica as well, it wasn't like it is now back in Marleys day. When Peter Tosh died, that was the end of old Jamaica, and the start of Crack-strip One Jamaica. Where's you think "Yardies" originally came from, CIA-backed Rightwing Anti-Socialist Political Militia anyone? Lets kill some dredlock-hippies/rastas/communists whatever the fuck they are, why not.

Once Jamaica's political system was thuroughly pwned by the usual interests, they can be desposed of, and a set free to be criminals and have a splash around in the crack/cocaine market, protection and extortion, police corruption.... welcome to the dark side Jamaica, you are now an officially recognised affiliate of the Land of the Free.

Its hard for any other film industry to compete with Hollywood. Their pictures are simply more popular than anything produced in other countries. Personally, I can't stand the standard hollywood blockbuster. Its all about blowing up shit and no real story telling. But the masses love it around the world.

When Titanic is the most popular film ever in that bastion of high culture France, it tells you how far ahead Hollywood is of everyone one else.

They are juist more successful.

 

[blamblam]

Why single out Fiddy? I've no like for the guy (and the videogame ad that I believe you're referring to is for a shite game funnily enough) but he's no better or worse than any other major hiphop act out there.

I take it you haven't heard "Window Shopper"?