Irreversible-Rape Scene
- Thread starter Grandma Death
- Start date
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
welshDJ said:Id agree with that. At one point her hand reaches out and almost touches the camera....almost like she is reaching out to the viewer for help. Makes me shudder thinking about it.
It's one of the reasons Peepshow works so well - the FP perspective immediately involves the viewer and makes them complicit in what is happening.
I'm trying to think of other examples where the single shot camera has been used to create the same effect...and it's been an age since I watched Irreversible too...
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Bomber said:
Reading some of the reviews online now it seems that is a common criticism of the film.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's the question you're supposed to ask yourself, that it's designed to make you think about - and the impact of what decisions you make is the point of the rest of the film.Bomber said:But has a witness would you just stand there and stare without flinching for ten minutes ?I don't think the technique of one angle shooting makes the viewer a witness I think it makes them a voyeur !
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Bomber said:But has a witness would you just stand there and stare without flinching for ten minutes ?
Go read a book on camera langauge and style and come back to us.
Of COURSE IN REAL LIFE you wouldn't stand there unless you were prevented from moving but IN FILM it is a way of turning the viewer into an player in the scene - because it's shot from a single POV, just as you would see it IRL your brain places you in the scene far more effectively than it beign cut, and it's not simple voyeurism since that implies a degree of detachment from what's happening - this technique makes you a part of the film.
Bomber
The Oatcake Kid !!
kyser_soze said:
Oh! The 'Sight & Sound' / Media studies clique have arrived have they
I don't profess to be a student of camera technique. I watch a film has a member of Joe Public, I'm just putting my opinion forward in the debate if thats OK by you .......... Cheers !
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Bomber said:Oh! The 'Sight & Sound' / Media studies clique have arrived have they
Ha Ha Ha...welcome to the Urban 'You really should know the facts before you post' clique.
welshDJ said:Ha Ha Ha...welcome to the Urban 'You really should know the facts before you post' clique.
well, don't you think knowing the facts before you post is a good thing?
None of those options really cover it for me- the duration of the scene was an issue of sorts- I felt extremely uncomfortable, horrified, upset by the scene, and obviously its duration played a large part in that (11seconds wouldn't have had quite the same impact). I do think it was necessary (if anything, it's the only thing that makes the ultra-violence at the beginning of the film make any sense), and it should have been that long, since the duration is a major part of its impact.
As others have said, the whole point of the scene is to make you witness the event with the maximum possible amount of empathy/horror, and I think it achieves this very well indeed. Whether or not people feel comfortable with this is a non-issue in my eyes, people can (and did) walk out of the cinema if it's too much for them. The fact that it did disturb people that much is (to my mind) a tribute to the skill of all involved in the film.
But now I'm asking myself the question- how much could I have taken, where's my rape-scene threshold. I don't know, but I imagine if it had gone on and on and on I too might eventually have had to leave.
As others have said, the whole point of the scene is to make you witness the event with the maximum possible amount of empathy/horror, and I think it achieves this very well indeed. Whether or not people feel comfortable with this is a non-issue in my eyes, people can (and did) walk out of the cinema if it's too much for them. The fact that it did disturb people that much is (to my mind) a tribute to the skill of all involved in the film.
But now I'm asking myself the question- how much could I have taken, where's my rape-scene threshold. I don't know, but I imagine if it had gone on and on and on I too might eventually have had to leave.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Dubversion said:
You back with your nails and jelly again?
welshDJ said:You back with your nails and jelly again?
well your ability to construct a coherent argument hasn't really come on in leaps and bounds during the last hour.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Bomber said:Oh! The 'Sight & Sound' / Media studies clique have arrived have they
Far from it, but if you're going to offer an opinion on something as specific as how camerawork is used to create mood, emotion and contact in the viewer it would be helpful of you'd at least got a 101ist idea of camera work.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Dubversion said:
Neither has your ability to troll.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
kyser_soze said:
But he hasnt got an idea of camerwork-he's already said that.
So if the camera angle made him feel voyeuristic surely he's entitled to that opinion even if he has now working knowledge of camerawork. And surely he's entitled to that opinion without a childish 'Read up on it then come back to 'us'
Jeez
welshDJ said:
oh jesus, you twat.
simply disagreeing with you - or anyone - is not the same thing as trolling. look it up, have a think..
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Dubversion said:
Is there any need to throw playground insults?
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
welshDJ said:But he hasnt got an idea of camerwork-he's already said that.
So if the camera angle made him feel voyeuristic surely he's entitled to that opinion even if he has now working knowledge of camerawork. And surely he's entitled to that opinion without a childish 'Read up on it then come back to 'us'
Jeez
He offered an opinion on camerawork with no idea of how it works - and also made a REALLY fuckign stupid comment with the 'If you were there you wouldn't just stand around would you' - well DUH! I'm watching a work of fiction. Would I stand around and actually watch this if it was happening in front of me?
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Bomber said:Leaves yet another Urban thread that invites opinion only to degenerate into a slanging match ! Honestly I really do despair !
Word.
Kameron
Kamoceratops
It has fuck all to do with being a member of Joe Public, that film was set up to make you feel a certain way. You don't have to be a student of anything to figure that out. You don't need to know anything but how you feel.Bomber said:Oh! The 'Sight & Sound' / Media studies clique have arrived have they
IMO the point is your reaction to your feeling is "this scene should be cut/censored" or otherwise degraded in some way to make it more acceptable to you. If this was because you felt it trivialised, excused or legitimised rape then I think you might have a solid argument but I think that you should perform self censorship and not watch it yourself rather than suggest that a film that unusually for cinema shows violence and its consequences should be made more palatable. Indeed I think the suggestion that it should be made more palatable for you is in rather poor taste given the content being explored here.
If it was shorter but just as effective then you would be here posting about some other way in which the content should be softened up for your taste buds. This was not a feel good movie, get over it.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
kyser_soze said:He offered an opinion on camerawork with no idea of how it works - and also made a REALLY fuckign stupid comment with the 'If you were there you wouldn't just stand around would you' - well DUH! I'm watching a work of fiction. Would I stand around and actually watch this if it was happening in front of me?
Right so do you feel the best way to correct this 'fucking stupid' comment is to tell him to go read up on a subject then come back to 'us' who the fuck is 'us' some sort of elite know it alls?
I despair of some of the posters on this site.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Well if you're going to make comments and criticism about a specific aspect of anything isn't it best to be informed about it first?
Bomber said:Leaves yet another Urban thread that invites opinion only to degenerate into a slanging match ! Honestly I really do despair !
if you bother to read the thread you'll find i was only too happy to debate until welshdj started throwing around accusations of trolling.
welshDJ said:
as do i. but maybe you'll turn out ok when you grow up
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
kyser_soze said:
Absolutely but you dont go about 'informing people' by saying:-
Go read a book on camera langauge and style and come back to us
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Dubversion said:as do i. but maybe you'll turn out ok when you grow up
Still throwing the insults around. You havent changed one bit since we first met in the kylie thread.
*exits thread and leaves the usual suspects to swing their holier than thou 'Im an urban clever clogs' placard around*
Bomber
The Oatcake Kid !!
kyser_soze said:He offered an opinion on camerawork with no idea of how it works - and also made a REALLY fuckign stupid comment with the 'If you were there you wouldn't just stand around would you' - well DUH! I'm watching a work of fiction. Would I stand around and actually watch this if it was happening in front of me?
Well thanks! So nice of you to refer to me as stupid just for having an opinion. Sorry I don't meet your exacting standards !
why is it whenever anyone is on the losing end of an argument on these boards they throw a hissy fit and take their ball home?
tossers
tossers
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Bomber said:
Go back and re-read your first comment and the context in which is was made. Then come back and say it wasn't an ill thought out (polite for stupid) comment to say 'If you were actually there you wouldn't just stand there'.
Besides, stupid is one of the least offensive and lightweight insults that'll be thrown at you if you hang around here long enough. Get used to it.
look at you,clever clogs, with your placard and your 'being right about stuff'.
i despair, i really do
i despair, i really do
