Irish man killed after "assassination plot" on Morales

[Idris2002]

I just wrote this nearly word for word above.

"‘He is supposed to have gone from being a doorman to opening and closing gates in Mayo to plotting to assassinate a president. That’s a hell of a jump.’ a security source told the Irish Mail on Sunday.

LICENSED TO KILL: Right wing zealots, Big Oil and the tattoo that hid an icon of hatred

So it's a fairly obvious question ain't it? Also this?
"Friends of Dwyer point out that, throughout his trip, he posted Facebook pictures of himself – in nightclubs, partying with friends, out in the jungle – hardly the actions of an international terrorist. Indeed, he even named his “co-conspirators’ as his Facebook friends.

He told everyone at home where he was going; he told them what for ('close protection training'); he posted regular facebook updates; he spoke to his mammy on Skype every other day ffs. If he were involved with a terrorist cell you'd think they might consider him something of a security risk, no?

"I'm just a patsy in all this" - Lee Harvey Oswald, 1963.

Granted that these bods were up to no good, they may also just have been idiots. Real squaddies hate mercenaries for a reason, right likesfish?

And I don't see why they couldn't have just rounded them up, stamped "persona non grata" in their passports and kicked them out of the country.

 

[Idris2002]

Casually Red

I get that Flores & co were/are dodgepots. BTW Flores appears to be from that area of Bolivia.

My question is what was some young buck from Tipperary - who had a) NO military experience whatsoever - it fact had no experience of violence at all; b) had never expressed any strong political views of any description - doing with them?

It's a bit of a jump from opening and closing a few gates, protecting Shell's interests from a few local farmers and a few Irish lefties, to supposedly being on the verge of assassinating a President, is it not?

I am struggling to see his value to them.

Also struggling to see any evidence to support the Bolivian authorities claims.

Re: the politics of "hardy bucks from de wesht, like", a couple of years ago in Castlebar I saw a car that had a professional etching on its back window, that read "14_88". I'm pretty sure it was that 14_88, if you know what I mean. . .

The point being that that sort of shite would appear to have reached even the remote shores of Oireland's Atlantic coasht, like.

 

[LiamO]

Re: the politics of "hardy bucks from de wesht, like", a couple of years ago in Castlebar I saw a car that had a professional etching on its back window, that read "14_88". I'm pretty sure it was that 14_88, if you know what I mean. . .

The point being that that sort of shite would appear to have reached even the remote shores of Oireland's Atlantic coasht, like.

Granted. Every wee place has a deluded crank or two. But local people (and the dogs in the street tbf) tend to know exactly who they are and what they spout.

In this case we have a fella who keeps everyone updated of his travels via facebook - but not one person has ever been produced to state that he ever expressed any strong political views, never mind Fascist ones.

Btw, why did you nor grab a photo of the car and it's reg? Would've made for some interesting online conversation, no?

 

[Idris2002]

Granted. Every wee place has a deluded crank or two. But local people (and the dogs in the street tbf) tend to know exactly who they are and what they spout.

In this case we have a fella who keeps everyone updated of his travels via facebook - but not one person has ever been produced to state that he ever expressed any strong political views, never mind Fascist ones.

Btw, why did you nor grab a photo of the car and it's reg? Would've made for some interesting online conversation, no?

I was struck by l'esprit de l'escalier.

 

[not-bono-ever]

?
not-bono-ever

Too much information LiamO.

 

[likesfish]

Mercs or pmc's managed to lower the already poor reputation they had to subeterren levels in iraq.
Due to cowboy behavior and expecting to be pulled out of the shit "that they'd managed to start "

Although slackwater eclipsed everyone by actually attempting to live up to the bad stereotype from lethal weapon and every other cheap thriller videogame

 

[Idris2002]

Mercs or pmc's managed to lower the already poor reputation they had to subeterren levels in iraq.
Due to cowboy behavior and expecting to be pulled out of the shit "that they'd managed to start "

Although slackwater eclipsed everyone by actually attempting to live up to the bad stereotype from lethal weapon and every other cheap thriller videogame

There was a lot of chatter in the 19990s about "PMCs" being the next big thing in international relations, and an option for the "responsibility to protect".

 

[likesfish]

after serria leone the idea of hiring some "crack" mercenarys who get paid for results became a fashionable idea rather than a bunch of 3rd world UN "peacekeepers" who are going to do very little apart from add to the rackets .
problem was nobody wated to pay and let them loose.

 

[Idris2002]

after serria leone the idea of hiring some "crack" mercenarys who get paid for results became a fashionable idea rather than a bunch of 3rd world UN "peacekeepers" who are going to do very little apart from add to the rackets .
problem was nobody wated to pay and let them loose.

Which neatly ignored the fact that the main PMC in SL had fingers of its own in the diamond racket.

 

[likesfish]

I belive they got a diamond mine if they could take it off the rebels.
Strangely they managed it very very quickly

 

[Bakunin]

Which neatly ignored the fact that the main PMC in SL had fingers of its own in the diamond racket.

Executive Outcomes, mainly former South African and Rhodesian mercs if I remember rightly.

Also Sandline International, a British PMC run by former Lieutenant Colonel Tim Spicer. They rebranded as Aegis Security after they were exposed as breaking the UN arms embargo courtesy of Labour's 'ethical foreign policy.'

 

[Casually Red]

Casually Red

I get that Flores & co were/are dodgepots. BTW Flores appears to be from that area of Bolivia.

My question is what was some young buck from Tipperary - who had a) NO military experience whatsoever - it fact had no experience of violence at all; b) had never expressed any strong political views of any description - doing with them?

It's a bit of a jump from opening and closing a few gates, protecting Shell's interests from a few local farmers and a few Irish lefties, to supposedly being on the verge of assassinating a President, is it not?

I am struggling to see his value to them.

Also struggling to see any evidence to support the Bolivian authorities claims.

Well I reckon he started expressing political views pretty strongly whenever he went and got those big wolf hooks tattooed onto his arm for life . He was up to his neck with some politically radical people that no doubt impressed him, and my guess is he got radicalised at some point . Have to get off to work but I'll come back to this later.

 

[Casually Red]

Re: the politics of "hardy bucks from de wesht, like", a couple of years ago in Castlebar I saw a car that had a professional etching on its back window, that read "14_88". I'm pretty sure it was that 14_88, if you know what I mean. . .

The point being that that sort of shite would appear to have reached even the remote shores of Oireland's Atlantic coasht, like.

Was it an Irishman driving it or one of our east european cousins though ?

 

[Idris2002]

Was it an Irishman driving it or one of our east european cousins though ?

I didn't have my calipers with me, so I wasn't able to take a measurement of his skull.

 

[Casually Red]

That was remiss of you . But if he had the track suit bottoms leather jacket combo it's a fair bet his oul fella never did goals for st brigids

 

[LiamO]

Well I reckon he started expressing political views pretty strongly whenever he went and got those big wolf hooks tattooed onto his arm for life .

really? If it hadn't of been pointed out I would not have particularly noticed that on his tattoo. I bet there are hundreds of young men on this island with a similar sleeve who haven't a baldy notion it is in any way politically dodgy.

He was up to his neck with some politically radical people that no doubt impressed him, and my guess is he got radicalised at some point.

Your guess?!? Ah well if your guess is good enough let's just shoot the cunt - and don't even bother asking questions later. Helps that the particular dodgepots he chose to knock about with (Croats) are your particular hates too, eh?

I imagine you would require a different level of proof were he a) an Irish Republican, b) a Basque, c) a Serb.

 

[Idris2002]

really? If it hadn't of been pointed out I would not have particularly noticed that on his tattoo. I bet there are hundreds of young men on this island with a similar sleeve who haven't a baldy notion it is in any way politically dodgy.

Colin Farrell, for example:

 

[likesfish]

that tats not that subtle though
sounds like some walt got used as cannon fodder/patsy somebody with some experience would have run a mile or just laughed as I did when approached by some bloke in a blazer looking for people for a job in africa .
my names not mcnab and several thousand quid vs a really unpleasant death count me out

 

[LiamO]

Yes, But Dwyer wasn't being paid to be there, was he? He actually paid to be there. 3000 euro apparently. Saved up from his time in Rossport,

On the promise of some 'close protection training', which I assume he thought was his entry into the big leagues of bodyguard work - as opposed to opening and closing gates whilst wearing a high-vis vest in North Mayo.

Anyways 'Patsy' would presume the actual existence of a plot. Bolivians have not come up with much evidence of one.

 

[Casually Red]

really? If it hadn't of been pointed out I would not have particularly noticed that on his tattoo. I bet there are hundreds of young men on this island with a similar sleeve who haven't a baldy notion it is in any way politically dodgy.




Your guess?!? Ah well if your guess is good enough let's just shoot the cunt - and don't even bother asking questions later. Helps that the particular dodgepots he chose to knock about with (Croats) are your particular hates too, eh?

I imagine you would require a different level of proof were he a) an Irish Republican, b) a Basque, c) a Serb.

Liam the amount of disbelief you're asking me to suspend is quite shocking . Unlike the vast majority of young men on this island , Dwyer was most definitely up to his bollocks with a group of fascist paramilitaries at the very same time he got his tattoo. And not only that , they were fascist paramilitaries who were ensconced in the home turf of , and who'd taken up the political cause of, these delightful chaps from Santa Cruz, the Camba Libre . That green and white shirt is their emblem, more of them at another time .

Any benefit of doubt goes right out the window . Flores gave his interview to Hungarian tv where he explicitly espoused their breakaway cause. I can post that up too unfortunately there's no English subtitles on it .

I'm reluctant to criticise a documentary I haven't seen but if it's not covering this stuff then I'm afraid it's a whitewash . There's loads of proof as regards what they were up to and who with .

Sorry to post and run but I'm bollocksedcafter a third night of overtime and can't concentrate to deal with it in depth, por ahora, but I'll definitely return to this . I know quite a lot about it and can post the sources once I've time . In the meantime ill try and get a look at that doco and see what they've said...and more importantly what glaring stuff they've omitted .

 

[Casually Red]

Yes, But Dwyer wasn't being paid to be there, was he? He actually paid to be there. 3000 euro apparently. Saved up from his time in Rossport,

On the promise of some 'close protection training', which I assume he thought was his entry into the big leagues of bodyguard work - as opposed to opening and closing gates whilst wearing a high-vis vest in North Mayo.

Anyways 'Patsy' would presume the actual existence of a plot. Bolivians have not come up with much evidence of one.

Liam , Dwyer was there for months on end staying in 4 star hotels with no visible means of support . And again on the subject of this close protection bodyguard training abroad . As soon as he was shot that company he worked for took down their website, which advertised that very training abroad. And when it went back up that service was deleted from it . Dodge as fuck .

The Bolivians have come up with their arms stash...and not least Flores own videos were he openly talks of the plot . And a network of millionaire cunts who legged it once the nest was blown . And they didn't need a patsy..they had Flores bang to rights .

 

[Casually Red]

There you go mate . The Bolivians have Flores secretly recorded discussing attempts and plans to kill morales. Dwyers sitting in his company just a few feet away . Flores is raging about failing to take evo and his whole cabinet out when they had a meeting on a boat in Lake titicaca .
I'm sure anyone with half decent Spanish can confirm .

 

[LiamO]

1. Flores is Bolivian. He is from Santa Cruz itself. He is homegrown fash.

2. I am well aware of his Croatian antics.

3. His presence at Rossport indicates something of a fall from grace, no?

4. There is no evidence whatsoever that Dwyer had any Spanish or Croatian or Hungarian language capacity - so for all he knew they could have been discussing tiddlywinks.

5. If every cunt who slobbered in a Bar about what they would do to X Politician there would be a mountain of bodies. Shite talk is not a Capital offence in most countries.

6. If this is so clear cut how come the two arrestees who were not stiffed are free and wandering about Europe?

7. If they had the evidence why are Todas and his mate not doing life sentences?

8. In the absence of evidence - but the presence of strong suspicions - why were Dwyer et al not just lifted and fucked out of the country?

 

[LiamO]

I'm sure anyone with half decent Spanish can confirm .

Anyone understand Spanish sufficiently to venture an opinion?

 

[Casually Red]

1. Flores is Bolivian. He is from Santa Cruz itself. He is homegrown fash.

2. I am well aware of his Croatian antics.

3. His presence at Rossport indicates something of a fall from grace, no?

4. There is no evidence whatsoever that Dwyer had any Spanish or Croatian or Hungarian language capacity - so for all he knew they could have been discussing tiddlywinks.

5. If every cunt who slobbered in a Bar about what they would do to X Politician there would be a mountain of bodies. Shite talk is not a Capital offence in most countries.

6. If this is so clear cut how come the two arrestees who were not stiffed are free and wandering about Europe?

7. If they had the evidence why are Todas and his mate not doing life sentences?

8. In the absence of evidence - but the presence of strong suspicions - why were Dwyer et al not just lifted and fucked out of the country?

A bit tired tonight mate but I'll try and do your points justice . I'll have a proper go at this at the weekend .

1 while he originated from Santa cruz I think it's a stretch to say he was a homegrown fascist . His family fled to the USSR when he was just a kid in the early 70s . He was brought up a communist, both parents communists and his dad Jewish . At one point he was even looking after the Carlos group at their Budapest hq as an official government liaison. He was very high up the young communist student leader tree . I don't believe he ever set foot again in Santa cruz or Bolivia until the events that led to his death . Most of his life was spent in Hungary . So I don't believe he could be considered homegrown by any means .

3 I don't believe mr Flores ever set foot in Ireland , much less Rossport . His Skezler legion buddies certainly did though . Btw on mr Flores laptop there were 2 cvs from another couple of Irish people he was also considering employing . Both with backgrounds in the security business and former military . I'll check that one out at the weekend .

4 from Dwyers Facebook he appeared to have a Bolivian girlfriend ...very pretty...and to be regularly socialising( in the expensive nightclubs he frequented for months with no visible means of income) so it appears he was able to function well enough in a Spanish speaking country . Furthermore those guns and ammo he was posing with weren't tiddlywinks . That's serious business with serious people .

5) I don't believe he was in a bar, it appeared to be a private residence . Mr Flores was also discussing sourcing more explosives...anfo... from a Peruvian contact. And a conversation like that would get you 20 years over here .

6) I think the arrestees who were let go uncovered a much wider network of very wealthy and well connected people in Bolivia ..." the uncles" I think was how they were referred to . All of whom skedaddled almost immediately to the united states and Europe . As well as surreptitiously recording the meetings Mr Flores attended . Hence that video I posted . They did a deal, basically . Common practice when youre rumbled and turned.

7 because they touted on others .

8 Again, they had evidence , no shortage of it . And I think , which is perfectly understandable, they thought it best to send a very clear message to any other mercenary fascist fucks who tried to destabilise and terrorise Bolivia that they'd wind up with a hole in the head if they were caught . Very sensible in my view .

There's a whole load of other factors here, as regards the polarisation in Bolivia between Indians and white Spanish, how the Bolivian establishment, judiciary, army elite, business elite etc were very hostile to evo morales, all sorts of stuff which meant even the prosecutor couldn't be trusted...he fucked off to the states as well . How coups were a very real possibility..the possible involvement of the US ambassador in destabilisation and separatism...his coincidence..links to separatist unrest in Kosovo before his Bolivian appointment .

There's loads of stuff that needs looked at.

However I'd put it to you that if you've never seen that video before and need it translated, then it's a sure bet it was omitted from that RTE documentary . And if I were you I'd be asking myself why that was omitted . Because its pretty important .

 

[Casually Red]

Anyone understand Spanish sufficiently to venture an opinion?

Did rte not give theirs ? If not why not would be a pertinent question in my view .

 

[Idris2002]

Another point: I don't remember the Dublin government saying anything much, good, bad or indifferent, about this case. Significant? Or not?

 

[LiamO]

Did rte not give theirs ? If not why not would be a pertinent question in my view .

RTÉ never showed it.

Keep going cr... you are winning here

 

[Casually Red]

RTÉ never showed it.

Keep going cr... you are winning here

Honestly not trying to win against you mate . I believe you, like a great many others, have been badly, and deliberately misinformed by that documentary . And that some of this shenanigans may possibly even be slightly linked to the Irish establishment itself . Hence the misinformation from the state broadcaster .

 

[Casually Red]

Another point: I don't remember the Dublin government saying anything much, good, bad or indifferent, about this case. Significant? Or not?

Quite significant in my view . As is the mysterious downing of their favourite security firms website immediately after the shootings, and it's reappearance in altered form with a number of overseas services quite absent . As if theyd never been there .Ireland's a corrupt banana republic when alls said and done .