Iran on Edge Of Pogrom?

[fela fan]

No-one lives in a true democracy. But trying to argue the US is as bad as Iran, or is anywhere approaching such a country is getting pretty tired IMO. Go to the US, go to Iran and see where you are more persecuted more for not fitting into the Govt message...

And this is the exact point where so many folk lose it over the US. Where they really don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Where they just could not be more wrong. They have been suckered by the big lie.

It's not about going to the US or Iran to measure how 'free' you are, or how 'not persecuted' they are. Oh no. In the non-anglo-american world it's much more about how fucked you are based on anglo-american foreign policy. For you see jaed, you really have not apparently realised that the US, and its lapdog UK, are a real threat to the freedom and peace and independence of ordinary people in so many countries around the world, and at this moment in time, it looks like the iranian ordinary folk are about to get fucked over by the US merchants of violence and bullying.

The US, to many countries in the world mean only one thing: loss of freedom, loss of life, loss of independence.

What does iran mean to all those many countries? A big fat fuck all. They are no threat unlike the military-minded killing genocidal american bastards.

You're warped man by the big anglo-american lie. You've been had. You've fallen for it. Sort yourself out man.

 

[kyser_soze]

Depending on whom you talk to Iran's ambitions cover most of the Persian gulf - places like Saudi are viewed as corrupted Islamic states gagging to be 'cured'.

Thing is, Iran's in an interesting position - they don't have the global clout militarily or economincally of the US, but by playing a very long game (as opposed to economic and political short termism in the US, where the only long term game is to ensure that it stays top dog as long as possible) and by having one magic ingerdient the US doesn't have - religion - I think that they potentially have a stronger hand in the long term by continuing to be the underdog and by the US behaving in the way that the whole 'New Crusade' propoganda feeds into and from...they'd be stuffed if the US suddenly changed tack and started doing things like putting real pressure on Israel to resolve the war there, for example.

 

[fela fan]

I'm not going to join the chorus of 'Iran good US bad' that some on the left are starting to indulge themselves in.

Yeah, well i'm not left or right or middle.

But it's really not the important distinction about who gets a better life, the average iranian or yank. What about the other 200 countries? Out of the US and iran what impact do they have on the average people of the rest of the world??

Nah, america are absolutely evil beyond compare in comparison with iran or any other country. The US interfere in very nasty ways in several countries of the world. Iran seem to interfere in not a single other country.

It is the US that are fucking up our world, not iran by any chalk of the imagination.

 

[kyser_soze]

Iran seem to interfere in not a single other country.

And you accuse jaed of being naive and being had.

 

[fela fan]

Agree with this as well.

Look, i'm really sorry about this KJ, but for the people of over 200 countries it's really nothing to do with which place would be better to live in, iran or the US. None of us will ever even go to these countries.

For the world's peoples, it's all about the external interference they receive from outside nations. And that is done by the US better than anyone. The US are genocidal actors on the world stage, Iran are nothing of the sort.

So, would you prefer to be at the end of iranian foreign policy or US foreign policy, assuming you don't come from a first world country?

 

[kyser_soze]

Well since Iranian FP also includes arming and training Islamic militias, neither.

 

[fela fan]

My general point was that in terms of geopolitial objectives, the US and Iran are little different

One of the most amazing comments i've ever read on urban!

They could not be more different than chalk and cheese. There's not even any evidence of iranian efforts at regional dominance, never mind the global variety.

Whereas the US are the primal empire of this century, albeit a declining one. They basically rule the world through economical, military, cultural means. Never mind how they shove their own laws up the arses of the sell-out leaders of other nations.

Iran and the US not much different in their global objectives??? You've gone mad man.

 

[Spion]

Depending on whom you talk to Iran's ambitions cover most of the Persian gulf - places like Saudi are viewed as corrupted Islamic states gagging to be 'cured'.

Hmmm, I think we have to look closely at such things. The middle east has long been awash with radio and TV broadcasts declaring all sorts of things about the neighbours and is a way of trying to wield influence, but whether it really indicates any real ambition or capability is debateable. Iraq right now is an exception tho

 

[butchersapron]

One of the most amazing comments i've ever read on urban!

They could not be more different than chalk and cheese. There's not even any evidence of iranian efforts at regional dominance, never mind the global variety.

Holy frig! Have you read anything, i mean anything about the region at all?

 

[fela fan]

Well since Iranian FP also includes arming and training Islamic militias, neither.

For that comment to have any validity you need to show how you are writing factually rather than reproducing anglo-american bullshit media stories.

Can you?

 

[Spion]

they'd be stuffed if the US suddenly changed tack and started doing things like putting real pressure on Israel to resolve the war there, for example.

good point. the hold the Christian right and the Israel lobby has on Washington is quite staggering . . . and seemingly senseless

 

[fela fan]

Holy frig! Have you read anything, i mean anything about the region at all?

Tis all about the books innit mate...

 

[butchersapron]

Tis all about the books innit mate...

Well it's all about the info and the history yeah. Not some vague feeling. And to assert what you've just done demonstrates as clearly as possible that you have no idea about either of these things. Again.

 

[fela fan]

Well it's all about the info and the history yeah. Not some vague feeling. And to assert what you've just done demonstrates as clearly as possible that you have no idea about either of these things. Again.

If you think that iranian and US foreign policy are similar in any decisive way, then it's you that are demonstrating as clearly as possible that you have no idea about the topic.

You appear to be seriously lacking in your knowledge of US foreign policy. Oh well.

 

[butchersapron]

If you think that iranian and US foreign policy are similar in any decisive way, then it's you that are demonstrating as clearly as possible that you have no idea about the topic.

You appear to be seriously lacking in your knowledge of US foreign policy. Oh well.

I've argued nothing of the sort. As well you know. I've not mentioned US forgein policy as i don't need to. I've simply laughed at your naivity and ignorance regarding the Iranian theocracy. As i've laughed at your naivity and ignorance regarding the Malaysian, Thai and Chinese states previously.

 

[kyser_soze]

good point. the hold the Christian right and the Israel lobby has on Washington is quite staggering . . . and seemingly senseless

It's the Rapturists mate - especially under this adminstration. The crazy fuckers think that supporting Israel will help bring about the End Times written about in Revelations by driving Israel into some form of nuke conflict...Bush is a Rapturist...Tony Robinson made a really good, if extremely scary, documentary about them a while back. Some of their websites have 'Doomsday Clock' style measures on them depending on how volatile the ME situation is...

Check it out...http://www.raptureready.com/

 

[kyser_soze]

For that comment to have any validity you need to show how you are writing factually rather than reproducing anglo-american bullshit media stories.

Can you?

Why should I? You never have when asked.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

good point. the hold the Christian right and the Israel lobby has on Washington is quite staggering . . . and seemingly senseless

I don't think the Israel lobby is as powerful as some would like it to be to match their fantasies. The Christian right wing however is a different story. Their plans for the middle east such as rebuilding the Holy Temple and their support for hyper extremist expansionist Jewish nationalists IS the problem. These loons believe that only by killing off loads of Jews and others in the region will their warped concept of the messiah come true.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

It's the Rapturists mate - especially under this adminstration. The crazy fuckers think that supporting Israel will help bring about the End Times written about in Revelations by driving Israel into some form of nuke conflict...Bush is a Rapturist...Tony Robinson made a really good, if extremely scary, documentary about them a while back. Some of their websites have 'Doomsday Clock' style measures on them depending on how volatile the ME situation is...

Check it out...http://www.raptureready.com/

I've met some UK based Rapturists <shudder>. Not nice people at all.

 

[kyser_soze]

From that 'Rapture Ready' website:

Rapture Ready Master Plan

Within the framework of the ultimate master plan, we have been working on an objective for the master plan for Rapture Ready. It involves a realization of what will happen as a result of the rapture. When the Lord Jesus comes to earth to remove the Church, I strongly believe the rapture will generate the greatest panic in human history.

Unlike other events in the past, the world will instantly realize the danger it is in. When the Great Flood occurred, most people just thought it was an unusual rain event. They didn’t realize their predicament until their lives were in peril. The supernatural nature of the rapture will present a crystal clear message.

The intense need for information will cause millions of people to turn to the internet for answers. Because Rapture Ready is so closely related to the subject, a huge number of people will find their way to this domain. Currently, only about 0.00115% of global internet users visit our site. I would not be surprised if 20 percent of the post-rapture population eventually reads an article from RR. The only limitation will be the ability of servers hosting RR to distribute data to the eager public.

You folks who happen to read this page ahead of the blessed hope are part of a very unique group of people. The vast majority of site’s visitors will come in the post-rapture world. This is why we have made it our master plan to address the needs of those left behind.

 

[Spion]

I don't think the Israel lobby is as powerful as some would like it to be to match their fantasies. The Christian right wing however is a different story. Their plans for the middle east such as rebuilding the Holy Temple and their support for hyper extremist expansionist Jewish nationalists IS the problem. These loons believe that only by killing off loads of Jews and others in the region will their warped concept of the messiah come true.

The Christian Right is integral to the Israel lobby

"In 1997, Fortune magazine asked members of Congress and their staffs to list the most powerful lobbies in Washington. AIPAC [American Israel Public Affairs Committee] was ranked second behind the American Association of Retired People, but ahead of heavyweight lobbies like the AFL-CIO and NRA."

Mearscheimer and Walt, The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy, p15 (orig publ in London review of Books, Mar 23 2006)

(a fascinating read, btw)

 

[KeyboardJockey]

The Christian Right is integral to the Israel lobby

"In 1997, Fortune magazine asked members of Congress and their staffs to list the most powerful lobbies in Washington. AIPAC [American Israel Public Affairs Committee] was ranked second behind the American Association of Retired People, but ajead opf heavyweight lobbies like the AFL-CIO and NRA."

Mearscheimer and Walt, The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy, p15 (orig publ in London review of Books, Mar 23 2006)

(a fascinating read, btw)

I'm a supporter of Israel's right to exist but I think that the christian right are the sort of friends that Israel could do without.

 

[fela fan]

I've argued nothing of the sort. As well you know. I've not mentioned US forgein policy as i don't need to. I've simply laughed at your naivity and ignorance regarding the Iranian theocracy. As i've laughed at your naivity and ignorance regarding the Malaysian, Thai and Chinese states previously.

Well, you just keep on laughing at me mate. It's good to know i can provide entertainment.

How great it is to laugh at the naive folk, the proles, the stupid ignorant working people, the average folk who just like to post up their ideas on this forum. You are a snobby elitist person, and nothing can argue otherwise.

Yer a middle-class wannabe mate.

 

[fela fan]

Why should I? You never have when asked.

Then don't. No worries. Sorry i asked.

 

[butchersapron]

Well, you just keep on laughing at me mate. It's good to know i can provide entertainment.

How great it is to laugh at the naive folk, the proles, the stupid ignorant working people, the average folk who just like to post up their ideas on this forum. You are a snobby elitist person, and nothing can argue otherwise.

Yer a middle-class wannabe mate.

Great post.

 

[kyser_soze]

Well, you just keep on laughing at me mate. It's good to know i can provide entertainment.

How great it is to laugh at the naive folk, the proles, the stupid ignorant working people, the average folk who just like to post up their ideas on this forum. You are a snobby elitist person, and nothing can argue otherwise.

Yer a middle-class wannabe mate.

Now that's entertainment...calling BA a middle class wannabe and snobby elitist...

 

[fela fan]

Now that's entertainment...calling BA a middle class wannabe and snobby elitist...

Glad to provide the entertainment mate. Now, meanwhile, go find out what pragmatic meaning means...

 

[fela fan]

Great post.

Is this sarcasm or genuine appreciation of a good post?

 

[jæd]

For that comment to have any validity you need to show how you are writing factually rather than reproducing anglo-american bullshit media stories.

Can you?

Can you...? The majority of your posts show you to be writing your own...

 

[butchersapron]

Is this sarcasm or genuine appreciation of a good post?

Go to bed fela.