Bonfirelight
Crocodile
parallelepipete said:
i think it became null and void after the revolution. 'The Islamic Republic of Iran' never signed in.
Iran hangs gay youths - what should be the response?
- Thread starter Cadmus
- Start date
i think it became null and void after the revolution. 'The Islamic Republic of Iran' never signed in.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
The main problem is that the idea of Universal Human Rights is largely Western Idea based around materialist principles of the world.
As with any creation of humanity, they don't inherently 'exist' - I'd like to see the somewhat nebulous concept of 'everyone has a right to live' in an extreme survival situation. As such while we like to talk about 'universal' human rights, they are a cultural artefact, predominantly of the Western European Enlightenment period which have become a meta-meme around the world. More and more cultures and people understand an accept the principles; others don't even ACCEPT the premise they are based on, which means they aren't 'universal' in any sense of the word.
And much as I find this story disgusting and certianly think the world should say something, this issue doesn't exactly rank up the list with removing the USUK forces and developing a stablised society with clean running water thruout the country really.
Sorry if that sounds callous or harsh but IMV there are more pressing issues for Iraqis to be dealing with at the moment.
As with any creation of humanity, they don't inherently 'exist' - I'd like to see the somewhat nebulous concept of 'everyone has a right to live' in an extreme survival situation. As such while we like to talk about 'universal' human rights, they are a cultural artefact, predominantly of the Western European Enlightenment period which have become a meta-meme around the world. More and more cultures and people understand an accept the principles; others don't even ACCEPT the premise they are based on, which means they aren't 'universal' in any sense of the word.
And much as I find this story disgusting and certianly think the world should say something, this issue doesn't exactly rank up the list with removing the USUK forces and developing a stablised society with clean running water thruout the country really.
Sorry if that sounds callous or harsh but IMV there are more pressing issues for Iraqis to be dealing with at the moment.
HAve you an atlas, kyser?
Bonfirelight
Crocodile
kyser_soze said:
good post. and as for Iran well, where can you start?
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Whoops. 
Same comments apply tho...you know, generally, except for the bits about USUK...
OK, I'm posting and working and we were having an office debate about Iraq and the bombing connection...
Same comments apply tho...you know, generally, except for the bits about USUK...OK, I'm posting and working and we were having an office debate about Iraq and the bombing connection...
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
horrific 
one thing we can do it to compaign for lesbian and gay asylum seekers from Iran to be granted leave to stay in the UK
I won't include transgender as in Iran transgendered people are permitted access to gender reassignment surgery as a basic human right.
the fact that Iran has one of the most progressive policies in the world re transgendered people yet hangs gay teenagers is hard for me to understand
edited to add that saudi is no better. Gays are killed there (stoned to death or beheaded IMMIC) even though there are many gay princes in the saudi royal family.
one thing we can do it to compaign for lesbian and gay asylum seekers from Iran to be granted leave to stay in the UK
I won't include transgender as in Iran transgendered people are permitted access to gender reassignment surgery as a basic human right.
the fact that Iran has one of the most progressive policies in the world re transgendered people yet hangs gay teenagers is hard for me to understand
edited to add that saudi is no better. Gays are killed there (stoned to death or beheaded IMMIC) even though there are many gay princes in the saudi royal family.
Nine Bob Note
Self-Isolating before it was fashionable
If I was drunk and in a particularly angry mood, I'd probably suggest kicking out their diplomats and turning their London embassy into a refuge for Iranian asylum seekers, but, as our glorious government sees fit to deport gay Iranians, with the helpful suggestion that they might like to try and bribe their way out of a certain death, it would be an empty gesture.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
Nine Bob Note
Self-Isolating before it was fashionable
Serguei said:The result would be every second asylum seeker from the region pretending to be gay... Even those married and accompanied by their families
We could sent them for evaluation in Italy. The Italian military consider themselves experts when it comes to sorting the undesirable gayboys from the draft-dodgers
Serguei said:The result would be every second asylum seeker from the region pretending to be gay... Even those married and accompanied by their families
Assuming you were right, that would presumably because the devious bastards didn't want to live in the sort of country where people get executed on account of their sexual preferences.
Do you blame them?
Pigeon said:
I have never in my life blamed an asylum seeker. I understand why they do it. I also believe that the asylum policy help a lot to fight communism in Eastern Europe. I just think that if everybody who pretends to be one is allowed to stay there would be no place left in this country. As a result it is time now to prioritise.
Cadmus
SINsational
I've said it before but on different threads so it's worth repeating: the universal declaration is not a binding document, it's merely a declaration which does not have power of an international treaty. so there are no-opt outs, as there are no opt-ins. it was just - declared, not ratified in states.parallelepipete said:
referring to it to support the human rights agenda is easily refuted so should be avoided.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
Serguei said:The result would be every second asylum seeker from the region pretending to be gay... Even those married and accompanied by their families
how do you know?
some might, their cases would be investigated just like any other aylum seeker but given the suicides and drastic measures (e.g. hunger strikes and sewing their own eyelids together in protest) resorted to by genuinely gay asylum seekers who's cases have been refused, the likelyhood of britain being flooded with fake gay asylum seekers is remote.
Even if it were to happen are you saying that you would rather risk the possibility of people being executed for their sexuality than allow a few fake gay asylum seekers to reside in the UK?
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
it does depend somewhat on the executee.fanta said:
i'm thinking here of charles i, louis xvi, mussolini...
the sort of people you'd love to put on a scaffold or up against a wall.
executing people for their sexuality's plain fucking sick.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
Cadmus said:
I couldn't guarantee that they wouldn't be shot by police just as I couldn't guarantee that they'd be trampled by a horse or run over by a bus but they'd be a helluva lot safer here than in Iran as I'm sure you know
Louloubelle said:
If everybody who is genuinely prosecuted for one or another reason had the means to arrive to the UK, there would be more asylum seekers in this country then other people. And the reason it is not happening are British Embassies not giving visas to people who are suspected to have a reason to apply for asylum.
To be honest one has to choose one of the two alternatives:
- give the entry visa to everybody who is prosecuted in other countries (the result – a collapse of British economy and the way of life)
- stop trying to pretend that we can save everybody and start saving only those who did something for this country (e.g. somebody who is known to actually fight the regime this country is opposing and is now been prosecuted for this)
steeplejack
seeing off the new ball
Fucks sakes. Just seen this. Those pictures made me feel sick.
What a lovely fucking country.
What a lovely fucking country.
Badger Kitten
oof
A plain without a feature, bare and brown,
No blade of grass, no sign of neighborhood,
Nothing to eat and nowhere to sit down,
Yet, congregated on its blankness, stood
An unintelligible multitude,
A million eyes, a million boots in line,
Without expression, waiting for a sign.
Out of the air a voice without a face
Proved by statistics that some cause was just
In tones as dry and level as the place:
No one was cheered and nothing was discussed;
Column by column in a cloud of dust
They marched away enduring a belief
Whose logic brought them, somewhere else, to grief.
Barbed wire enclosed an arbitrary spot
Where bored officials lounged (one cracked a joke)
And sentries sweated for the day was hot:
A crowd of ordinary decent folk
Watched from without and neither moved nor spoke
As three pale figures were led forth and bound
To three posts driven upright in the ground.
The mass and majesty of this world, all
That carries weight and always weighs the same
Lay in the hands of others; they were small
And could not hope for help and no help came:
What their foes like to do was done, their shame
Was all the worst could wish; they lost their pride
And died as men before their bodies died.
Taken from the Shield of Achilles by WH Auden
In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Who has such terrible things done in your name. Rest in peace.
No blade of grass, no sign of neighborhood,
Nothing to eat and nowhere to sit down,
Yet, congregated on its blankness, stood
An unintelligible multitude,
A million eyes, a million boots in line,
Without expression, waiting for a sign.
Out of the air a voice without a face
Proved by statistics that some cause was just
In tones as dry and level as the place:
No one was cheered and nothing was discussed;
Column by column in a cloud of dust
They marched away enduring a belief
Whose logic brought them, somewhere else, to grief.
Barbed wire enclosed an arbitrary spot
Where bored officials lounged (one cracked a joke)
And sentries sweated for the day was hot:
A crowd of ordinary decent folk
Watched from without and neither moved nor spoke
As three pale figures were led forth and bound
To three posts driven upright in the ground.
The mass and majesty of this world, all
That carries weight and always weighs the same
Lay in the hands of others; they were small
And could not hope for help and no help came:
What their foes like to do was done, their shame
Was all the worst could wish; they lost their pride
And died as men before their bodies died.
Taken from the Shield of Achilles by WH Auden
In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Who has such terrible things done in your name. Rest in peace.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
exosculate said:
But most religions don't actually go all the way to execution.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Here in Canada, it was anglican bishops who got the whole gay marriage thing started, by marrying gays.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
Johnny Canuck2 said:
That was my point my Canadian cousin.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
exosculate said:
I guess that means I got it. I'm just confirming it in my canadian way.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
TeeJay said:
The US could invade?
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