IOF; Top brass ordered civilians cluster-bombed

[GarfieldLeChat]

TAE: Therte are rules on papaer but once you enter a kill zone you will not be thinking about them. they are for bureacrats and journalists to mull over. Soldiers just work.

intresting you think that that defence worked in this case?

cos they were just working right??

pte Lindie's case... right war crimes aren't prosicutable right...

all armed forces for sovergin govt's are wholley resposnilbe for obsevering the universal declearation of human rights and the geniva convention they are personally and organisationally responsible to uphold this... as well you know... if you don't you'll be busted and arrested... and face the consiquences...

 

[KeyboardJockey]

intresting you think that that defence worked in this case?

cos they were just working right??

pte Lindie's case... right war crimes aren't prosicutable right...

all armed forces for sovergin govt's are wholley resposnilbe for obsevering the universal declearation of human rights and the geniva convention they are personally and organisationally responsible to uphold this... as well you know... if you don't you'll be busted and arrested... and face the consiquences...

I agree that armed forces from a legally constituted state are governed by the Geneva Conventions etc but show me the evidence that Hamas / Hezbollah etc are obeying the GC?

 

[phildwyer]

The Israeli response is disproportionate to the Palestinian attacks.

Of course it is. Israel has always had a policy of disproportionate response. Without such a policy the state of Israel would have been destroyed long ago.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

What about Israeli civilians. They are suffering as well not just from the actions of terrorists and other groups but from the damage such a conflict does to Israeli civil society. A society under siege cannot grow.

this is true enough however a plauge on both house it may be it's a lot easier toweather the plague if you have food water security access to habitation medical aid and armed forces than if you don't....

It's not to say that there is not great injustice to isreal from the militariseation of their society indeed more people kill themselves inside of the military every year than are killed by palestinians... these figures are truely shocking and are the hidden cost of the occupation and militariseation, not the random rocket attacks... the almost near impossibilty to get a job if you have been a consienious objector... therefore destined for poverty low pay and systematic abuse from the system... again a cost of the militariseation of isreal...

I can understand your point of view but you can be a Zionist and not want the Palestinians to be oppressed.

sadly this isn't merely an anti militarised isreal viewpoint, i think you'd need to look at the co-opting of zionism by the far right in isreal as a method of control and propigation of their agenda and the almost near exclusiviseation of the term by isreals far right. In effect they have abolished the other forms of zionism which had postive aspects (as it were, one could argue that any form of sepratism based on relgion is frankly a poor idea) have been all but dissolved in this co-opting...

The Arab states are not blameless in all this.

true there has been an excessive use of palestinians as pawns in other Arab state poltical manuverings...

They could have integrated the Palestinians into their societies much more effectively than they did but it was more useful to them to keep the Palenstinians in shitty refugee camps as they could point to them and say 'look what the Israeli's have done' and deflecting attention from their own regime deficiencies.

erm i think you need to look at what you are saying here again...

palesitinians unlawfully moved out of their homes by actions taken by an illegal war should jus tintergrate into their new refugee homeland as they should be greatful for their hosts generousicty in allowing them to remain...

is the basic premis of it... which is frankly faulty in it's thinking....

perhaps it would be a better postition if isreal relinquished the land stolen in an illigal war and allow those dispossed to return home...

The Palestinians are not the only ones who are suffering. It damages Israel to be involved in constant conflict.

totally but it's like saying that a fat man and a thin man suffer during famine time... which is going to be better off. Thsi presupposes and equitable level playing field of oppertunity for both sides when there is none (it's either naive to suggest it or dishonest, i'm hoping that it's the former...)

I don't see why individual Palestinians can't be bought off. Surely to give each Palestinian £150k as a final settlement for the trauma of the creatioin of Eretz Israel would be a lot better deal than being used by Arab govts as conflict fodder and would be probably far more money than their land was worth in the first place. The palestinians must not be left empty handed from any settlement of the problems in the middle east.

because they don't want money they want their land back...

If i forced you out of your flat (if you were still in it) at gun point and then refused to leave for say 5 years with out access to your documents your possestions or indeed anything and any attempt to recover these things meant that i and many tooled up associates beat you and threaten both you and your family with death indeed during this period during a particularlly violent episode i killed your parents you partner you friends and then took over their homes and added it to my property wealth, would you be happy with any amount to just forget about it... what is the price of a human life and the dispossestion and alienation from your entire home, culture and livelyhood... would you be happy with 150k... some how i doubt it...

you lack of empathy, let alone understanding of this issue belies the dificulty of resolving this sitatution, there can never be a situation where it is acceptable on any level to say we will disspossed people and they should just accept whatever hand out we choose to give them by way of compensation... you'd not accept it and nor should anyone else...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I agree that armed forces from a legally constituted state are governed by the Geneva Conventions etc but show me the evidence that Hamas / Hezbollah etc are obeying the GC?

erm which part of sovergin forces isn't explict ...

hamas's militain wing are in effect an gurilla force as is hezbollahs sinn fein ira type affair only those who'd ignore the reality of the set up or have an agenda to push would deny this... however it can be said that just as in sinn fein and the ira it would be ludicrious to suggest that the two aren't closly releated if not in reality the same people... however it would prolly be better to cease the continuation of attempting to merge all palestinian fighters into their corresponding poltical groups and isloate them from the process of peace talks this at least allows and arms lenght policy to develop and then allows for decommisioning... sadly, all of these forces are in reality reactionary forces they didn't evolve in isoltation if isreal removed it's soidlers today it would be far eaiser to turn round and say to palestine ok whatcha gonna do ... carry on the killing? retaliation? or come to the table...

It's insainty however to say to the bullied or the oppressed put down your stick and we'll stop beating you ... this assumes a level of trust between the two sides which isn't there... nor can be when one side has stones and one f16's ... it's that equiality of oppertunity thing again...

 

[KeyboardJockey]

this is true enough however a plauge on both house it may be it's a lot easier toweather the plague if you have food water security access to habitation medical aid and armed forces than if you don't....

Agreed up to a point.

It's not to say that there is not great injustice to isreal from the militariseation of their society indeed more people kill themselves inside of the military every year than are killed by palestinians... these figures are truely shocking and are the hidden cost of the occupation and militariseation, not the random rocket attacks... the almost near impossibilty to get a job if you have been a consienious objector... therefore destined for poverty low pay and systematic abuse from the system... again a cost of the militariseation of isreal...

As I said before the militarisation of Israeli society is damaging it.

sadly this isn't merely an anti militarised isreal viewpoint, i think you'd need to look at the co-opting of zionism by the far right in isreal as a method of control and propigation of their agenda and the almost near exclusiviseation of the term by isreals far right. In effect they have abolished the other forms of zionism which had postive aspects (as it were, one could argue that any form of sepratism based on relgion is frankly a poor idea) have been all but dissolved in this co-opting...

I couldn't agree more about this co option of Zionism by the far right. It damages the good and necessary parts of Zionist thought.

true there has been an excessive use of palestinians as pawns in other Arab state poltical manuverings...

erm i think you need to look at what you are saying here again...

palesitinians unlawfully moved out of their homes by actions taken by an illegal war should jus tintergrate into their new refugee homeland as they should be greatful for their hosts generousicty in allowing them to remain...

is the basic premis of it... which is frankly faulty in it's thinking....

It ws agreed that the Land of Israel would be returned to the Jews who were unjustly removed from their homeland by the Romans. In many cases although there were forced expulsions of Arabs from Israeli territory there were equally many more cases where Israeli's who bought land from Arab land owners at a fair market price but unfortunately said land contained Arab tenant farmers who had to be removed from the land as they had no right to remain after the land was sold.

perhaps it would be a better postition if isreal relinquished the land stolen in an illigal war and allow those dispossed to return home...

Some of the land should go back but I dont' think that the Arabs should be allowed to return. It would upset the demographic too much. It would be far better to resettle the Arabs who were removed from Israel at the inception of the state with a healthy recompense (which incidentally is a far better deal than the Jews were offered when they were dispossessed of their state).

totally but it's like saying that a fat man and a thin man suffer during famine time... which is going to be better off. Thsi presupposes and equitable level playing field of oppertunity for both sides when there is none (it's either naive to suggest it or dishonest, i'm hoping that it's the former...)

They still have to talk at some point though. If the Arabs cease attacking Israel with suicide bombs etc then it might persuade Israelli's that there is milage to be gained in reining in it's military.

because they don't want money they want their land back...

Well they can't have it. As I said before a lot of the land was sold by Arab land owners to settlers to the New Israel. Besides wasn't TransJordan going to be a home for the Palestinians anyway.

If i forced you out of your flat (if you were still in it) at gun point and then refused to leave for say 5 years with out access to your documents your possestions or indeed anything and any attempt to recover these things meant that i and many tooled up associates beat you and threaten both you and your family with death indeed during this period during a particularlly violent episode i killed your parents you partner you friends and then took over their homes and added it to my property wealth, would you be happy with any amount to just forget about it... what is the price of a human life and the dispossestion and alienation from your entire home, culture and livelyhood... would you be happy with 150k... some how i doubt it...

It doesn't have to be 150k it could be a plot of land, and a support package somewhere else. Some Arabs should be allowed back but not all.

you lack of empathy, let alone understanding of this issue belies the dificulty of resolving this sitatution, there can never be a situation where it is acceptable on any level to say we will disspossed people and they should just accept whatever hand out we choose to give them by way of compensation... you'd not accept it and nor should anyone else...

Its not lacking empathy its choosing what side to support in this. I want to see a strong Israel but a fair Israel which doesn't oppress either the strangers within it's own borders nor their neighbours.

Even if the issue of land and compensation itself is sorted then there is still the question of Jerusalem. Who's going to control that. I'd prefer it to be a World City and be administered by the UN.

I think there will have to come a time when the palestinians will have to get real and try to rebuild their communities. However I don't think they should do it within the borders (pre 67 with negotiated adjustments) of Israel.

 

[nino_savatte]

I agree with the judgement of disporportiality but until Israeli's feel a bit more secure and the wings of some of the Ultra Orthodox parties in the Knesset are clipped then this fear of the Palestinians will get worse.


I'm a Zionist (in so far as I believe that Israel should be a homeland for the Jewish people of all denominations and none and that Israel should be run on principles of charity and justice) and I don't think that the Palestinians are scum. They've been goaded and mistreated and used and not just by Israel.

Well, Zionism played well into the hands of European anti-Semites, who felt vindicated in their beliefs that Jewish people were 'nothing like them' and 'subhuman'. Israel has become a beach head in the Middle East for western interests. Unfortunately the Zionists in charge of Israel can't see this and are happy to ignore the lessons of history.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Well, Zionism played well into the hands of European anti-Semites, who felt vindicated in their beliefs that Jewish people were 'nothing like them' and 'subhuman'. Israel has become a beach head in the Middle East for western interests. Unfortunately the Zionists in charge of Israel can't see this and are happy to ignore the lessons of history.

Are you trying to say that The Holocaust was aided by Zionism? Because if so you are frankly very wrong there. German and Eastern European anti semitism was nothing to do with the ideas of Zionism. There is a more direct lineage of hate from the Christian Churches I'm afraid.

 

[nino_savatte]

Are you trying to say that The Holocaust was aided by Zionism? Because if so you are frankly very wrong there. German and Eastern European anti semitism was nothing to do with the ideas of Zionism. There is a more direct lineage of hate from the Christian Churches I'm afraid.

You got sucked into that one KBJ; that isn't what I said or even meant. Zionism did not enjoy universal popularity with Europe's Jews until after WWII. Most Jews saw it as a sell out; which, in my mind, it still is.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

You got sucked into that one KBJ; that isn't what I said or even meant. Zionism did not enjoy universal popularity with Europe's Jews until after WWII. Most Jews saw it as a sell out; which, in my mind, it still is.

A major push for the popularity of Zionism after WWII was the realisation that no matter how integrated and accepted Jewish people were in the Diaspora (and remember German Jews were the most integrated in Europe) it still wouldn't save them from atrocities and discrimination.

I see nothing wrong with Zionism but it has been bent over the years by the extreme right.

 

[moono]

KBJ;

The only knee jerk I'm seeing on here is an anti israelli knee jerk. Oh and I love your 'teenage lefty' description of the IDF as the IOF - yawn. Like any armed forces its primary job is to protect the borders of Israel. I'm not saying that the Palestinians are not oppressed but in order for there to be peace the Palestinians and the Israeli's need to meet each other half way. I agree that the IDF has done bad things but that doesn't excuse the actions of some Palestinians. If you want a good thing that the IDF has done then I would say protecting the state of Israel since 1948 against overwhelmingly hostile neighbours.

When they withdraw to their own borders they can call themselves a 'defence' force . While they are in offensive positions they are an offensive force. And don't bore me with any 'pre-emptive' defence crud, I'm an adult.

The State of Israel is abhorrent , in the minds of the ethnically-cleansed, the dispossessed and the survivors of IOF brutality. There can be no 'half-way' meeting, according to the Palestinian government. Israel is not recognised by the Palestinian government, among others, and nothing resembling a 'two state solution' will be countenanced. Previous attempts at negotiation have led to Palestinian refusal of humiliating terms.

The Zionists brought war, perpetuate war and depend upon war. It is a movement which needs to be outlawed in order to bring harmony amongst Semites.

Oh yeah, you started the bollox, so bollox back.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

KBJ;


When they withdraw to their own borders they can call themselves a 'defence' force . While they are in offensive positions they are an offensive force. And don't bore me with any 'pre-emptive' defence crud, I'm an adult.

Adult - could have fooled me. If you came on here with the intention of adult discourse rather than being all shouty shouty then I might have met you half way but you haven't. As regards what the Israeli Government /military SHOULD do I believe that it should do the following:

Move back to the pre 67 borders but allowing for demographic changes that may have occured within the occupied territories.
East Jerusalem is in my mind a position that cannot be moved on. However, if it was made a UN city then there may be room for compromise.
I don't have much time for the 'pre emptive defence' line either. If the IDF was sending small forces in killing a Palestinian terrorist and then getting out then that is one thing but the wholescale destruction of neighbourhoods well that is not acceptable.

The State of Israel is abhorrent , in the minds of the ethnically-cleansed, the dispossessed and the survivors of IOF brutality. There can be no 'half-way' meeting, according to the Palestinian government.

The State of Israel is a far less abhorrent than countries that the left routinely ignore and don't condemn such as Burma, China, Russia etc etc.

Israel is not recognised by the Palestinian government, among others,

Some of the 22 muslim states that refuse to recognise Israel or accept Israeli passports are real hotbeds of democracy and human rights arn't they. Oooooh I've got a choice now Saudi or Israel.

and nothing resembling a 'two state solution' will be countenanced.

A two state solution can be countanenced what bothers me are some of the fellow travellers of the SWP who openly call for a Palestine 'from the Jordan to the Sea'.

The Zionists brought war, perpetuate war and depend upon war. It is a movement which needs to be outlawed in order to bring harmony amongst Semites.[/QUOTE]

So you'd outlaw Zionism would you. What else would you ban. Scratch a rabid anti Zionist and you find an authoritarian - typical.

Oh yeah, you started the bollox, so bollox back.

LOL!

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

It ws agreed that the Land of Israel would be returned to the Jews who were unjustly removed from their homeland by the Romans. In many cases although there were forced expulsions of Arabs from Israeli territory there were equally many more cases where Israeli's who bought land from Arab land owners at a fair market price but unfortunately said land contained Arab tenant farmers who had to be removed from the land as they had no right to remain after the land was sold.

see i think in reality you'd be hard pressed if asked to prove a linage dating back to the romans of nearly anyone on the planet other than proably some family in rome... historical accuracy is far from exact on this really and there can be no real defence of this kind of thinking to say well sorry they may have lived there since biblical times but prior to that we lived there is no basis for land claims, none...

will the original settlers desendants of sohos forest enclaves be evicting current tennents shortly based on their eviction from the village in order to perpetuate royal hunting grounds...

should the the native americans rise up now and lay claim to the WTC crash site and all of new york and lasy it to waste based on the histroical theift of land? is this what you are sacantioning... that the confirmed indiginious peoples return to where they started on the planet before their started migrating by force or by choice and reclaim their ancestral lands on the notion of some shared commonality of history which genus is now lost forever in time... if so i'm up for it i can't wait... it'll be all mad max though could i guess desttroy all modern advancements and totally lay waste to all forms of civility communication or anything else that has progressed in the near 3000 year hence... but hey if we need to do this ... you get the point n'est pas...
it's a tad different to say people who less than 50 years ago were removed from their homes by a war which was illiegal and has been found to be so should nto return to their homes...

your right their might well be a prior claim for land redistribution due to the roman jewish disporia however, this would need to be taken up with the current italian government and claims filed, surely, not taken out on the people who now live here... i mean there are ways and means no?

for example nazi war art stolen from jewish families now then is it appropreate to break into houses and steal the art back? or should the repropreation be done via the formal channels... again you get the point...

Some of the land should go back but I dont' think that the Arabs should be allowed to return.

all of the land should go back. for the reasosn stated above... all back to 1947, sorry but that's what was allocated for better or worse that's all that isreal is entitled too. all that is mandated. you cannot say well all the art should be returned by i like that painting so you can't have it... it doesn't wash.

It would upset the demographic too much.

no not really isreals boarders would need to be adjusted back to the correct areas the demogrpahic wouldn't be affected... unless you are attempting to suggest (which again i hope not) that isrealis wouldn't want or could not tollerate having palestinian neighbours... or some such racist notion ...

It would be far better to resettle the Arabs who were removed from Israel at the inception of the state with a healthy recompense (which incidentally is a far better deal than the Jews were offered when they were dispossessed of their state).

this is a different matter those dispossed at the creation of isreal are the people now fighting the people fighting are the ones who have been dispossed as a result of the nakbah and the 1967 war... not the creation of isreal. i think you are getting confused here with your history...

again the roman dispossesion of isreal old is a different matter and has nil baring on palestinian dispossestion it's flawed to lump the two together as your mum prolly said two wrongs don't make a right...

They still have to talk at some point though.

they will the current movements of anti militariseation in isreal couplled with the realatively short fused rise of the far right in isreali politics (sharron didn't have a hope in hell in of governence in the 1980's) will change indeed it is changing 10 years ago consienious objection was nearly unheard of indeed it was still a crime arrestable and imprisonable, you were encouraged to claim mental instablity and were interned in mental institutions etc the old pleed insainity clause to get out of the army... this is changing, slowly but surely... and as long as this change happens then the time for talking will be of course merely a case of a generational change... it will happen... the will is such on the ground... just as in most areas which are split or divided there will come a time when they decide to stop killing and start talking...

If the Arabs cease attacking Israel with suicide bombs etc then it might persuade Israelli's that there is milage to be gained in reining in it's military.

again you are putting the horse before the cart. the aggressive acts are those of isreal not of palestine. that's not to dismiss the actions of palesitians or their militant groups, but it is an action of reltaiation for actions, in the wider context, all resisitance to isreal occupation and actions is retalitiation. it's a resisitance to prevent themselves or their cultural aspects to be sujigated by the occupation forces... that's the reality. the driving force behind isreali acitons is to reenforce their hold on the area and to also poltically dominate the knessett with the miliartisitc will, in essence isreal is currently a milatary with a state rather than a state with a milatary. this power balance is so badly out of kilter that all actions are reported as the defence of isreal and the attack of palestine, it needs to be phrased in such manner just as the UK's war in iraq needs to be phrased in such a manner in order to justify the actions to prevent civil unrest I mean if the papers in the uk said actually we're just massicering them fuck it we've got no clue that's your tax hard at work... we kill kids woo hoo etc it wouldn't go down well at all and would lead to shorter than usuall govermental lifespan...y'know...

so this pretence is needed the charade has to be kept up...

in reality there have been significant attacks on palestinians every day of every year for over 35 years... yet the level of palestinain reltaiation in comparision to this is frankly almost non exisitant... it's not to say they don't attack but if you drew a graph by comparison the scales of the axis would need to be so far part as to render the palestian figures near flat... it'd be like shooting some ones famliy dead for some one placing a thumb tack on your seat... by way of comparision, and no matter how bloody painful that was it's not and excuse to wipe out a family... period...

Well they can't have it.

they can and one day they will. this is an eventuality, and a reality that even the isreali goernement admit too...

As I said before a lot of the land was sold by Arab land owners to settlers to the New Israel.

intrestingly the methods used here would be consdiered by most as obtaining goods by deception... also you may wish to look into how much isreal spend per head on the general population and how much on the settler population ... i think you'd be shocked as to where isreals taxation is being spent and what consiquences it's having on the stability and security of isreal whole...

Besides wasn't TransJordan going to be a home for the Palestinians anyway.

erm no all of the west bank and gaza as mandated in 1947 were going to be for the palestinians.....and besides, it's a no go area for palestinians now anyway... it's been annexed as part of the mala addumim settlement ... to prevent palestinian access to jeruselm ...

It doesn't have to be 150k it could be a plot of land, and a support package somewhere else.

erm no sorry falwed thinking... would you be happy with my previous suggestion of me taking over your home and you can just find some where else...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

pt2

Some Arabs should be allowed back but not all.

gladly you are not the voice of authroity here... all will be allowed back this isn't a problem which is going to go away with an aging population.... this is still vey mcuh an open wound...

Its not lacking empathy its choosing what side to support in this. I want to see a strong Israel but a fair Israel which doesn't oppress either the strangers within it's own borders nor their neighbours.

that's not compatible with your stated ideals at this time...

Even if the issue of land and compensation itself is sorted then there is still the question of Jerusalem. Who's going to control that. I'd prefer it to be a World City and be administered by the UN.

i'd like to see this too... though not administered by the UN make it's own country... jerusalem land

I think there will have to come a time when the palestinians will have to get real and try to rebuild their communities.

only once isreal get's real and stops destroying their communities in the first place... most of the areas of palestine are 'getting real' and rebuilding and if you look at the population growth compared to isreal you'd see that it's very real... sooner or later isreal will have to accept that they are now out numbered, and denying representation to what essentially will become over half of it's curent population due to the non recognition of the 1947 boarders will mean that sooner or later there will be an uprising to demand and take those rights if they are not given... it's historically ture to say that that level of uprising rarely goes well or peacably... it's in isreals intrests not to allow that to happen...

However I don't think they should do it within the borders (pre 67 with negotiated adjustments) of Israel.

the boarders are 1947 and there will be no negotiated adjustments, as i have said what compensation can you get for the assignation of your culture...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

keyboard J am i right in thinking you are a newish convert to Judeaism i seem to recall a thread about your first synagog trip or some such.

I just wonder where you are getting your informaition about isreali/palesitne and the conflict from it seems slightly squewed (not bigotted just misinformed...)

 

[Jonti]

Do you believe in religious apartheid, KBJ?

 

[moono]

That depends upon whether he's a Peter Pan Zionist or the sort we're all used to.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

That depends upon whether he's a Peter Pan Zionist of the sort we're all used to.

no he's not there are different zionists out there moonoo as we have fucking been through before, you know you single handedly have put my off posting about the is pal sitaution you fuckingn worse that the morons who champion ertze isreal sometimes you know that... stop behaving like a twat and attacking eveyone...

moron...

 

[Jonti]

But is KBJ a supporter of apartheid along religious lines?

I think we should be told!

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

But is KBJ a supporter of apartheid along religious lines?

I think we should be told!

as i recall and i'm sure he'll correct he's a new convert to juedaism and supports the concept of ertze isreal with out the oppression of palestinians... (bit of a mixed bag hotch ptoch theroy if you ask me but hey...)

feel free to rubbish this KBJ if i'm wrong

 

[Jonti]

Ah, so one founds a country on a religious myth, driving out hundreds of thousands of people that live there already. Then, one says one wants that system to continue, but without the oppression.

Riiiiight.

 

[TAE]

And the 'civilised world' has agreed upon certain rules of warfare, like distinguishing between civilian and military targets. Read the UN charter, which most countries have agreed to abide by.

Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

Happened before the UN was founded.

If it makes you TAE feel safe to know that a body has created some rules then that is very fine for you.

No, it does not 'make me feel safe'. WTF?

Humans just do whatever they want to until someone else arrives and stops them by force.

And?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Ah, so one founds a country on a religious myth, driving out hundreds of thousands of people that live there already. Then, one says one wants that system to continue, but without the oppression.

Riiiiight.

well there's is of course the minor flaw in the argument i conceed however i think we'd better let KBJ define their opinions rather than taking my words for it i could be wrong.... fairness and equitable discussion etc etc

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Happened before the UN was founded.


No, it does not 'make me feel safe'. WTF?


And?

don't fed the trolls please...

 

[TAE]

We Great Britain do expect our soldiers to abide by Geneva conventions and for example not fire on unarmed civilians or unarmed women and children. We do prosecute them if they break these rules.

Good guys have rules, bad guys do not.

It seems you do agree with me then.

 

[moono]

Gharfield;

no he's not there are different zionists out there moonoo as we have fucking been through before, you know you single handedly have put my off posting about the is pal sitaution you fuckingn worse that the morons who champion ertze isreal sometimes you know that... stop behaving like a twat and attacking eveyone...

moron...

Stop being a champion of the sly and the underhand, Garfield. You are becoming a puke precipitator.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Gharfield;



Stop being a champion of the sly and the underhand, Garfield. You are becoming a puke precipitator.

ok moonoo what is it that you do excatly other than attack people on bulletin boards who don't ascribe precisely to your version of wevollutionary poltics so please don't presume to tell others what they can or cannot think about a situation. more over your low grade constant ad homien attacks on posters is neither helpful to intelligent debate or the wider problem... you are like some reverse bushbot always attacking people not their comments... either your with us or against us any sound familar...

now if you'd be so good as to tone if fucking down a tad eh?

 

[moono]

I can stand you being inarticulate, Garfield, I can even stand you being an inarticulate shitebag, but don't ever, ever, call me moonoo.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I can stand you being inarticulate, Garfield, I can even stand you being an inarticulate shitebag, but don't ever, ever, call me moonoo.

moonoo

so what is it that you do preceisly ... no wriggling lad...

 

[moono]

I'm a council assassin.