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IOF plan Negev ethnic cleansing

I've answered your questions how about you answer mine?





Ok Rachamin18 we will take away the land you make your living from and then shoot your peoples children in the head when they get close to a trigger happy solider.

What you you like to call it, murder? Collateral damage? Target practice?
 
rachamim18 said:
Dandred: Were you to ever stand anywhere in the so called "West Bank," Gaza, or Israel Proper all the land that you could see unassisted would be Jewish land.


How can you prove this, who gave the Jews the land? God :D :D :D :D


Link please as to who gave the Jewish that land? Thanks. I will be asking the same about the Inuit North American's. Thank you. :)
 
rachamim18 said:
Nino: Seems you still have a difficult time with English. I said "perhaps," would you like me to run a definition by you? As for bias, Israel's population has a 20% minority of Arabs. Pray tell, are they biased against fellow Arabs? You are still not making any sense poor Nino.

How odd, you're the one who claimed to have English as a second language and you're lecturing me? Arrogant as well as medacious.

Your attempt to conceal yourself behind semantics is embarrassing.
 
Dandred: It is just that your question does not make any sense. If I was forced to play your game though, my label would be one that has been in much vogue since 1948: "PALESTINIAN." that suit you? Just ask the residents of Metullah, K'far Tzion, and Tel Chai among dozens of other lesser known Jewish towns.


"What about the USA and Native Americans?" Easy, aside from Reservations which have a high level of autonomy, to say nothing of those that have organised gambling and/or tax free tobacco concessions...I believe that all tribes that still posses a coherent culture and racial seprateness DO have a right to have ALL their lands fully restored and to be paid in full for all pain and suffering in what could easily be called the worst case of genocide on record.


"Who transplanted the Arabs?" They tehmselves. You know precious little of the region or its people. I suggest you start with a good book on the Ottomans, say L-rd Kinross' "Ottoman Centuries." Then aqcuaint yourself with a book on the Arabs now calling themselves "Palestinians, say Kimmerling and Migdal's "The Palestinian People." Then for dessert, anything by Bernard Lewish should give you the very beginning inkling of an understanding of this very complex area.


You see, Arabs did come here in the 700s, with the Sword of Islam and ruled this land, as part of the Khalifa for all of 22 years. After that, it was not until the 1500s that a Muslim sat in power for any period of extended time, ruling of course from Turkey. It was in this era that we see the Arabs now calling themselves "Palestinians" start to drift to this land and lay claim as tenant farmers to certain pieces of land. Most however, as I already said, came from between 300 and 150 years ago, with the bulk favoring the latter years.

In your analogy though, the Jews are the Native Americans. FACT: ALMOST ALL "PALESTINIANS" have less than 150 years on the land. How does that stack against the Anglos who have 500 in the Americas?


"Dig under any house..." Actually, in the "West Bank" alone there were 925 RECORDED JEWISH villages destroyed during the reign of Hadrian. This is just for starters. Would you like to continue? al Quds? the place where Muhammed's magical winged horse transported him to Paradise? Why that is the Temple Mount of course. Anywhere you look., in any Arab habitacion, holy place, or landmark, you will find Jewish history. Most Arabs do not even deny this. Sure, they try to dispel it by such nonsenseas trying to halt excavations on the Temple Mount as if the Western Wall is not proof enough and as if al Bukhari does not speak of it himself. You have alot to learn Dandred.


"In the USA, dig under most houses and you will find Inuit remains." Do you even know which tribe the Inuit are? They are the so called "Eskimos." You will not find many below the Arctic Circle. No danger of the homeowner in South Carolina finding Narwahl harpoons underneath his garage floor. In any event, when Native artifacts ARE found the tribe in question immediately flood federal courts with all kinds of writs and well they should. I fully support the rights of indigenous people the world over. As an indigienous person myself, as is my wife [of another kind altogether], it isan issue close to my heart.


"Who gave the Jews the land, G-D?" I am not the least bit religious, despite my wife's nbest efforts but then converts are always the most intense. The Jews conquered the land in question in two successive waves , the last one ending circa 4500 years ago. This we know from independant histories, as well as artifacts and other archaelogical proof. Arabs on the other hand did not even step into history IN ARABIA until 400 odd years before the Common Era [BC].


As to the Inuit, they came from Siberia in successive waves beginning 20,000 years ago and the last wave finishing circa 5,000 years ago. They or their close relatives can now be found in America, Canada, and Greenland.


Nino: "English as a second language." Actually more like 4th or 5th. Arabic, Russian, Hebrew, Yiddish, then MAYBE English if you do not place LAdino in front of it.


"Conceal myself behind semantics." I do not even know what that might mean.
 
Nino: "English as a second language." Actually more like 4th or 5th. Arabic, Russian, Hebrew, Yiddish, then MAYBE English if you do not place LAdino in front of it.

Second, fourth, fifth, whatever; you claim that it is not your first language and you believe that you can give me lessons in grammar. :rolleyes: Give it a rest, you've been sussed.

"Conceal myself behind semantics." I do not even know what that might mean.

You've made my point for me, thanks.
 
Dandred: Perhaps English is also not your strong point. I DID answer your questions. Reread my post.


Nino: My grammar is terrible and my spelling needs alot of help as well. I am not sure where I gave you lessons. Perhaps ytou were being delusional?
 
rachamim18 said:
Dandred: Perhaps English is also not your strong point. I DID answer your questions. Reread my post.


Nino: My grammar is terrible and my spelling needs alot of help as well. I am not sure where I gave you lessons. Perhaps ytou were being delusional?

You're pretty good with these words, Schlachamim..."delusional". Here's one for you: "projection". :p
 
rachamim18 said:
Dandred: Perhaps English is also not your strong point. I DID answer your questions. Reread my post.

:D :D

Come on, I gave you what I expect back........


Address my post's the same way I have addressed your post's......:)

Oh, how many Arabs did you kill? :rolleyes: :) ?
 
Dandred: Oh I see now, you wish to engage me in a battle of sarcasm, etc. Sorry. This is my home and I take it deadly seriously. I have kids here, hope to have more, and all the time hoping for a better future for them and me. I do not see where jokes have any place in the debate but to each their own.
 
rachamim18 said:
Dandred: Oh I see now, you wish to engage me in a battle of sarcasm, etc. Sorry. This is my home and I take it deadly seriously. I have kids here, hope to have more, and all the time hoping for a better future for them and me. I do not see where jokes have any place in the debate but to each their own.


Your home!!!!!!!

Yea right the waters parted :D :D :D :D
 
rachamim18 said:
Dandred: Oh I see now, you wish to engage me in a battle of sarcasm, etc. Sorry. This is my home and I take it deadly seriously. I have kids here, hope to have more, and all the time hoping for a better future for them and me. I do not see where jokes have any place in the debate but to each their own.

Why not just fuck off to the USA where all the money is coming from and be happy?

It's not your home anymore, just like the Inuits, North American Indians, and the Aboriginal's.......

Should they get there land back too? Do you think they should be treated the same as the Jews? If not why not?
 
A Bedouin girl was critically wounded on Wednesday when she sustained bullet wounds to the head in the northern Negev. The shots were apparently fired by an Israel Defense Forces soldier.

The girl, who had been herding her sheep in the area of the incident, was brought to an IDF base near Kibbutz Orim in the northern Negev in the early afternoon by a Bedouin man. The man said that the girl had been shot by IDF soldiers after she had wandered into a firing zone

It is still unclear whether the girl's family had a permit for herding in the area of the incident. The herding season has begun and many Bedouin complained that there is a shortage in herding permits.

Since 1999, no new herding permits have been issued.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/831805.html Nice.....


Look's like ethnic cleansing to me........What do you think Rachamin?

Pushing those people from their land. Not nice. What would people say if that happened to the Isreali's?????
 
rachamim18 said:
Tangent: Foreign ogliarchs? What nonsense. I think you need to rely less on propaganda sites and actually do some relevant research. If you do, you will find that Israel has planty of land with the govt. ownning most of it so that were industry truly in need of space, it would have its pick. The Negev is far from most anywhere save S'derot, Dimona and a couple of Kibbutzim. When one builds factories, etc. one wants workers. Where would these "ogliarchs" get them?
their demographers (these work as ngo's) are planning to remove another 500,000 (esp. haredim) from USA.

oligarch - i use this term to mean manufacturing or industrial elite and it's the correct word to use really, because this small group of people are dictating the future shape and inhabitants of israel/palestine. these 'oligarchs' are an organised elite, and they work through various israel-based ngos with the israeli govtm but have links to international 'oligarchs' based in usa, russia, etc. some ngos present a 'religious' face, or couch their work in charitable ways, 'helping jews escape antisemitism' but this is only a front.

i've done plenty of research and i wish you would listen. this is something to be very concerned about, and to act upon and to guard against. these are bad overlords who will ruin the land, who do not care that they affect the groundwater, the delicate soil/sand substrata, the flora and fauna any more than they care about the indigenous people who live there - and seriously, they don't care about jews either - it's just business to them. these people are willing to kill people who get in their way, as we saw with the artist Emilio Mogilner: http://www.themedialine.org/news/news_detail.asp?NewsID=16831 as we see with those israeli jews and arabs who try to stand up to them. it's criminal what they're planning, and what they are doing, and they use the israeli military to enforce this distopic future. really you should be worried and share these concerns. you want to be well and have a future, don't you?

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edit: we can't write hebrew here anymore?
 
Rachamin, instead of wasting your time on racist, ideological-drenched nonsense, read historical correct works on the real history of this situation and its conflicts.
Hint: Such works need to include history pre-dating the artificially constructed state that received the name Israel.

shalom.
 
tangentlama;
?????????? ???????? ???????, ???????????? ???-??????? ??????-??????; ????????????? ????? ??????????
edit: we can't write hebrew here anymore?

Odd. Ask again.
 
Aldebaran said:
Rachamin, instead of wasting your time on racist, ideological-drenched nonsense, read historical correct works on the real history of this situation and its conflicts.
Hint: Such works need to include history pre-dating the artificially constructed state that received the name Israel.

shalom.

shalom salam, aldebaran,
you realise that israel was 'artificially constructed' in the same way as pakistan was, don't you?
and we don't consider that the muslim world deems pakistan illegitimate, and so by that same reasoning, neither is israel, in it's 1947 form.

there are very real fears now that what is happening in the negev now fulfills raphael lemkin's definition of genocide.
 
tangentlama said:
you realise that israel 'artificially constructed' in the same way as pakistan was, don't you?

What on earth Pakistan has to do with anything I can't guess, but it wasn't exactly the same internationally concerted and approved process that led to its construction, was it.

salaam.
 
tangentlama said:
there are very real fears now that what is happening in the negev now fulfills raphael lemkin's definition of genocide.

If you refer to the targetting of Bedouin populations that isn't exactly a new issue, hence one can only be satisfied that it finally gets "some" more public attention. I doubt it shall have any other result in the short or long term, unless miracles start to happen.

salaam.
 
Aldebaran said:
What on earth Pakistan has to do with anything I can't guess, but it wasn't exactly the same internationally concerted and approved process that led to its construction, was it.

salaam.

through armed struggle, and through un involvement, yes, there is so little difference between the two states in the nature of their 'legality' and coming into being. they were both created on religious foundations - a muslim state in pakistan, a jewish state in israel. they were both borne from armed struggle. the similarities are to great to be ignored. although pakistan, by comparison, split again in the 1970s to form bangladesh.
 
Aldebaran said:
If you refer to the targetting of Bedouin populations that isn't exactly a new issue, hence one can only be satisfied that it finally gets "some" more public attention. I doubt it shall have any other result in the short or long term, unless miracles start to happen.

salaam.

forget hope. forget miracles.
one must make lots of noise about it and broadcast the information without resorting to racist rhetoric back against israeli people, since alienating them only creates a hardening of attitudes which feeds the cycle allowing the oligarchs to continue with their heinous plans.
 
tangentlama said:
through armed struggle, and through un involvement, yes, there is so little difference between the two states in the nature of their 'legality' and coming into being. they were both created on religious foundations - a muslim state in pakistan, a jewish state in israel. they were both borne from armed struggle. the similarities are to great to be ignored. although pakistan, by comparison, split again in the 1970s to form bangladesh.

There are some rough similarities in both having the religious component, but it goes not further then that.
In my view Pakistan is to date - and especially in its so called "Islamic" goal - a failed state anyway.

salaam.
 
tangentlama said:
through armed struggle, and through un involvement, yes, there is so little difference between the two states in the nature of their 'legality' and coming into being. they were both created on religious foundations - a muslim state in pakistan, a jewish state in israel. they were both borne from armed struggle. the similarities are to great to be ignored. although pakistan, by comparison, split again in the 1970s to form bangladesh.

I'm not so sure that a comparison between Pakistan and the state of Israel is apt, for a number of reasons (please bear with me):

1) Pakistan was as much a creation of Hindu separatism as it was of Muslim militancy, with the Hindus seeing the creation of Pakistan as a chance to get shot of a rapidly burgeoning Muslim minority, whereas Israel was a creation not for a population already internal to the state, but of a mostly immigrant population (notwithstanding Rachamim's pissant arguments about a 4,000 yr-long Jewish presence in the area).

2) Muslim Indians had a voice and a status in India, and in the political deliberations which brought about independence.

3) Pakistan's creation was mandated, Israel's was via UDI (IIRC).


BTW, "East Pakistan" (now Bangladesh) was never a workable proposition for close governance by West Pakistan, and I suspect Mountbatten, his advisors and Nehru knew that. I suspect they also knew that East Pakistan would put a brake on West Pakistan's military capacity for a very handy couple of decades where they might have otherwise concentrated on rolling the Indians out of Kashmir. :)
 
thanks for those adds to my perceptions, alderbaran, violentpanda.
violentpanda, i thought both pakistan and israel's 'creation' were mandated by the UN in 1947 ?
( i don't want to sidetrack the conversation for too long, because i see no-one corrected the raphael lemkin statement!)
 
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