Invitation to participate in the creation of a new Revolutionary Socialist Orgnsation

[articul8]

How does this differ from the CPGB's laughable Campaign for A Marxist Party? You could have every revolutionary in the country in a single organisation and it would still be smaller than the Greens.

 

[The Black Hand]

It is amazing that the keyboard warriors spout so much shite yet have no real world presence themselves and they do not spot the contradiction. At least these people are trying to do something...

 

[belboid]

How does this differ from the CPGB's laughable Campaign for A Marxist Party? You could have every revolutionary in the country in a single organisation and it would still be smaller than the Greens.

well, not having the CPGB in it can only help.

 

[exosculate]

Trots scare the crap out of me!

 

[articul8]

well, not having the CPGB in it can only help.

their handlers will be sending them over to this thing too

 

[Bakunin]

I can only imagine what the party launch will be like.

Where New Labout had D:Ream and 'Things Can Only Get Better' the latest soon-to-be-dead Trot front will probably have Kajagoogoo doing something like:

'Doo-Doo-Doo, come on and build the party,

Doo-Doo-Doo, parade from A to B,

Doo-Doo-Doo, come on and sell the paper...'

Or something equally hideous and tiresome.

 

[poster342002]

Where New Labout had D:Ream and 'Things Can Only Get Better' the latest soon-to-be-dead Trot front will probably have Kajagoogoo doing something like:

'Doo-Doo-Doo, come on and build the party,

Doo-Doo-Doo, parade from A to B,

Doo-Doo-Doo, come on and sell the paper...'

Or something equally hideous and tiresome.

That or the theme tune to Luarel And Hardy.

 

[Nigel]

There just aren't enough esoteric Marxist sects around these days are there? Apart from the odd contemporary reference that text could have been written by any two-bit Leninist group in the last 50 years. What makes this lot any different from the countless other quasi-Bolsheviks that have ended up in the landfill of history?

To be honest, talking to a couple of ISG members/supporters recentely, seem to be moving away from a blinkered view of bolshervism, criticising democratic centralism and even Trotskyist program.

One was telling me that the ideas of CLR James was more important than Trotsky's.

As I've only skimmed through Black Jacobins, some stuff on cricket & ontology, by CLR James I'm not sure if this is better or worse.

 

[mk12]

great organizations of the masses of the people and of workers in the past were not worked out by any theoretical elite or vanguard. They arose from the experience of millions of people and their need to overcome the intolerable pressures which society had imposed upon them for generations. [. . .] the new organizations will come as Lilburne's Leveller Party came, as the sections and popular societies of Paris in 1793, as the Commune in 1871 and the Soviets in 1905, with not a single soul having any concrete ideas about them until they appeared in all their power and glory. But once we have a clear historical perspective we can see outlines of the future in the rising in Eastern Germany in 1953, the great strike in Nantes in 1955, the general strike against Reuther of the UAW [. . .] the incredible 10 year struggle of the British dockers, and now, as we write, the Coventry workers. [. . .] All these struggles, varied as they are in scope and significance, have this in common, that they all embody formations and activity which over-ride, bypass or consciously aim at substituting new social forms for the traditional workers' organizations. However high they soar they build upon shop floor organizations and action on the job

 

[Nigel]

sounds good.
Have you got a source

 

[selamlar]

Yeap. Or as someone said on another board:A rather long way of saying that some of the ex-SWP people who left or were expelled over the Respect split are joining the ISG.

Any names we know?

 

[mk12]

That's in State Capitalism and World Revolution by CLR James. Read Dunayevskaya too, she was politically similar to him.

I don't think it's available online, but you can read about his political development in Cleaver's "Reading Capital Politically" here:

http://libcom.org/library/reading-capital-politically-cleaver-intro

If you scroll down to "The Johnson-Forest Tendency"

 

[cockneyrebel]

That quote has got many good points. There was a meeting at the PR weekend event called:

Can the left put revolution on the agenda again?

And the first thing the speaker said was "it can't". The working class put change on the agenda.

 

[mk12]

Good point that. "The left" has never put revolution on the agenda (despite what some might say).

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Already apparently a lot of leading members of RR are attacking the idea of having a revolutionary socialist organisation in RR as a distraction, unecessary and divisive.

 

[Bakunin]

Already apparently a lot of leading members of RR are attacking the idea of having a revolutionary socialist organisation in RR as a distraction, unecessary and divisive.

'SPLITTERS!!!!!'

 

[articul8]

Good point that. "The left" has never put revolution on the agenda (despite what some might say).

To be honest, though, I don't think even someone like Lenin thought they did - but he argued that revolutionary uprisings need political organisation and direction if they are not to be snuffed out rapidly by the forces of reaction.

 

[mk12]

he argued that revolutionary uprisings need political organisation and direction (by his party)

I'd agree with that, although I think this ^ is more fitting.

 

[articul8]

of course

 

[Grego Morales]

To be honest, talking to a couple of ISG members/supporters recentely, seem to be moving away from a blinkered view of bolshervism, criticising democratic centralism and even Trotskyist program.

One was telling me that the ideas of CLR James was more important than Trotsky's.

As I've only skimmed through Black Jacobins, some stuff on cricket & ontology, by CLR James I'm not sure if this is better or worse.

Well, that's certainly encouraging. The obsession with 1917 and the Holy Trinity of Marx/Lenin/Trotsky eventually put me off that whole workers party bollocks after being fairly well involved for two or three years. Some of the lunatic fringe (ICC, WP, mental SLP factions) pride themselves on being a small select group with their blessed and arcane wisdom - they have no intention of connecting with the working class other than in the impenetrable insights of their discourse.

There's a big wide world out there, and not everybody in it is a dead communist.

 

[Nigel]

To be quite honest I doubt many people on the revolutionary left would be put in positions of authority through revolutionary struggle

 

[behemoth]

To be quite honest I doubt many people on the revolutionary left would like living under the kind of regime they advocate.

 

[JHE]

I don't doubt most of the silly buggers would be executed under regimes established by the Slamists they court, promote and praise.

 

[poster342002]

To be quite honest I doubt many people on the revolutionary left would be put in positions of authority through revolutionary struggle

Why should they bother when they often are already in positions of authority udner the existing capitlaist system. Just about every trot I've eevr met has been a manager.

 

[dennisr]

Why should they bother when they often are already in positions of authority udner the existing capitlaist system. Just about every trot I've eevr met has been a manager.

liar / fantasist

which is it?

fancy meeting up then sonny ?- fancy meeting a real live trotskyist??

 

[poster342002]

fancy meeting up then sonny ?

Why?

 

[Nigel]

Sorry I derailed this thread into another slagging match.
Trying to get it back to the discussion at hand; The Revolutionary Socialist Oraganisation that ISG/Socialism From Below/SR are putting forward would be within RESPECT, out of it, some where in the middle(bit like ISG).

What difference would it be from the rest of the Heinz 57 of sects/groups/anti capitalist united fronts/new Workers Marxist parties that exist at the moment.

 

[dennisr]

Sorry I derailed this thread into another slagging match.

Don't blame yourself for that mate.

poster XXX is the kiss of death for every thread, has been for months

 

[dennisr]

Why?

lets see how the internet arsehole named 'posterXXX' reacts to a dose of 'real' as opposed to 'lying wank'

how high up in your fantasy worldview version of my apparent 'managerial' position do you consider me to be?

liars have to face truths at some point - can't always hide behind computer screens and false identities

 

[belboid]

I'm actually the President of MFI, dontcha know