Interview with Hugo Chavez, The World Tonight

[pbman]

Not really. I'd prefer for nobody to engage in 'misleading' propaganda or rhetoric.

Then you should say that instead of repeating it.

 

[Streathamite]

no you dipshit cos i actually believe the emancipation of the working class can only be carried ouyt by the working class.

err.....if you do your homework, you'll see he may not have been an indigenous labourer, but he wasn't Lord Muck either, and he didn't grow up on southfork!

 

[revol68]

I agree about the personality cult, and I have reservations about Chavez. I still think - were I Venezuelan - I'd prolly rather have Chavez than anyone else who's remotely likely to get that job.
He's not perfect, but on a practical note he's a million times better than yer average latin american politician/military strongman.
However, my main beef is with what i regard as his (revol's) unrealistically purist endless oppositionism. The only result he'll settle for, is one that he is no nearer achieving today than his like ever has been - which means a blanket condemnation of any 'plan B' a short cut to eternal futility, impotence and defeat.
If there a walls of steel between me and a loaf of bread, i'll take the half a loaf I can grab. revol, on the other hand will shout at the wall "I MUST have TWO perfect loaves now! Or else!"
and wait....
and wait...
put bluntly; he's a lalalander.

so your wnakfest over Chavezis doing what for the Venezualen proletariat?
Your not so much shouting at the wall as dry riding it.

Anyway I have nothing but contempt for "political leaders" and their "politico fanboys", but it doesn't mean to say I will only fight when it directly leads to communism, i have een involved in plenty of "reformist" campaigns that seek the betterment of mine and the rest of the classes position in the here and now, but im not willing to sit and scuk the dick of a careerist politician/general in the hope he might give me a wee present, the only present ypu get from pimping yourself like that is a nasty wee STD, just ask the Chileans who held back on Allende.

 

[Sorry.]

Then you should say that instead of repeating it.

repeating what?

None of the remarks you quoted are misleading. Venezuela really is preparing for an American invasion and various arms dealers have the receipts to prove it.

 

[revol68]

err.....if you do your homework, you'll see he may not have been an indigenous labourer, but he wasn't Lord Muck either, and he didn't grow up on southfork!

well thats some class analysis your rollin with there honky.

He could have been born in a fucking toliet and it would be of little concern. John Prescott was working class and so was John Major. Maggie was petite bourgeois by birth but she wasn't exactly ruling in the interests of the petite bourgeois.

fucking get a clue or fuck off Red Joka, or are you just distracted by your attempts to build that ultra sonic deathray for the Nepal thread?

 

[pbman]

repeating what?

None of the remarks you quoted are misleading. Venezuela really is preparing for an American invasion and various arms dealers have the receipts to prove it.

lol

You don't think its likely yourself, but you don't have a problem with him misleding his people.

The reality is, that only about 50 people in the intire us, give a shit what he does.

We are more likely to lauch all our nukes at the moon tomorow, than invade.

 

[Sorry.]

lol

You don't think its likely yourself, but you don't have a problem with him misleding his people.

How are they being mislead? Chavez stated what he thinks, it's up to them whether they believe him.

(and whilst I don't think the US will invade, I certainly think your government poses a threat to democracy in Venezuela)

The reality is, that only about 50 people in the intire us, give a shit what he does.

We are more likely to lauch all our nukes at the moon tomorow, than invade.

So why do the Washington Post, Miami Herald et al. keep bollocking on about him? Why did Washington recognise the coup d'etat if they don't give a shit?

In fact why is Venezuela any more or less important than all the other Latin American countries the US has spent decades interfering in?

What makes Haiti so special as to deserve having its head of state kidnapped by US marines?

In fact, if the US doesn't care about Chavez, why is his name brought up by your diplomatic personnel and political representatives on a regular basis? Usually in connection with whatever social unrest happens anywhere in the world...

 

[newharper]

lol

You don't think its likely yourself, but you don't have a problem with him misleding his people.

The reality is, that only about 50 people in the intire us, give a shit what he does.

We are more likely to lauch all our nukes at the moon tomorow, than invade.

Of course you won't "invade", just run the coup, then send in "Peace Keepers" at the invitation of the new " Gov't".

 

[pbman]

How are they being mislead? Bush stated what he thinks, it's up to them whether they believe him.

Sound good, but i do wish you would have said that two years ago.

 

[pbman]

Of course you won't "invade", just run the coup, then send in "Peace Keepers" at the invitation of the new " Gov't".

I rather give the commies the oportunity to fuck up on their own, and let the people remove them.

Witch would probably be happening right now, but for their blatant propaganda, to distract the people...........

O well, i'm sure they will figure it out soorner or later.

 

[revol68]

as much as i have issues with Chavez there can be no doubting that he is much more popular than any yankee puppet, infact the more the US gives Chavez dirty looks the more it strengthens his government. Seems just like Castro the US sees communism where there is only a desire for economic development.

 

[pbman]

as much as i have issues with Chavez there can be no doubting that he is much more popular than any yankee puppet, infact the more the US gives Chavez dirty looks the more it strengthens his government. Seems just like Castro the US sees communism where there is only a desire for economic development.

Good point.

Thats why we are ignoring him.

Hell i wouldn't even know who he was, unless i came here.

Why the hell would we care who the hell runs the country.

As long as they don't start murding the people in the commie fashion, we could care less.

 

[Sorry.]

Sound good, but i do wish you would have said that two years ago.

difference between "lying" and "having an opinion I disagree with"

 

[Sorry.]

Good point.

Thats why we are ignoring him.

Hell i wouldn't even know who he was, unless i came here.

Why the hell would we care who the hell runs the country.

As long as they don't start murding the people in the commie fashion, we could care less.

Could you fuck, I could reel off dozens of quotes from state deparment and diplomatic personnel expressing their deep concerns re:Chavez, in addition to reems of newspaper editorial. If you lot don't care, you've a fucking funny way of showing it.

 

[pbman]

Could you fuck, I could reel off dozens of quotes from state deparment and diplomatic personnel expressing their deep concerns re:Chavez,.

No doubt you could, but no-one gives a shit.

Its not a blip on the news even.

Poll the american people i doubt 1 in a hundred even know who he is.

Polititions blather a lot about lots of shit, no one cares about.

Its pretty much in the job discription.

I do wish you would realize that spin doesn't matter.

Its just spin.

Nothing more and nothing less.

It can grow into something important..................

But not in this case.

 

[pbman]

difference between "lying" and "having an opinion I disagree with"

I used the left wing meaning of lie.

 

[JoePolitix]

so your wnakfest (!) over Chavezis doing what for the Venezualen proletariat?
Your not so much shouting at the wall as dry riding it.

Anyway I have nothing but contempt for "political leaders" and their "politico fanboys", but it doesn't mean to say I will only fight when it directly leads to communism, i have een involved in plenty of "reformist" campaigns that seek the betterment of mine and the rest of the classes position in the here and now, but im not willing to sit and scuk (a new clothing brand?) the dick of a careerist politician/general in the hope he might give me a wee present, the only present ypu get from pimping yourself like that is a nasty wee STD, just ask the Chileans who held back on Allende.

The Venezuelans have already experienced their own September 11th 1973 (the date of the Pinochet coup) on April 13 2002 when top-military officials with U.S state department and local oligarch backing seized power. The resemblance was quite uncanny: media blackouts, ‘dissolution’ of all representative institutions, violent repression of demonstrators, threats to bomb the Presidential Palace etc.

Only this time the coup was actually defeated, not in small part due to the spontaneous uprising of the barrios around Caracas who braved military repression to defend their democracy. Where were you? Rereading Hegel’s ‘The Philosophy of Right’ for the umpteenth time? Trying to abuse and humiliate people on the web who have the tenacity to hold different opinions to your own?

Let’s face it, Venezuelans don’t need lectures in coups and how to resist them from smug, self-satisfied, bull-headed bigots like "revol68", regardless of whether or not they are wrapped in pretentious "Marxist" rhetoric.

And do you regard Chavez’s mass base in the Venezuelan working class and poor peasantry as being "politico fanboys" who deserve "nothing but contempt"?

 

[Sorry.]

No doubt you could, but no-one gives a shit.

Its not a blip on the news even.

Poll the american people i doubt 1 in a hundred even know who he is.

Polititions blather a lot about lots of shit, no one cares about.

Its pretty much in the job discription.

I do wish you would realize that spin doesn't matter.

Its just spin.

Nothing more and nothing less.

It can grow into something important..................

But not in this case.

Whether the American people care or not I don't know. The American political class certainly care.

 

[pbman]

The Venezuelans have already experienced their own September 11th 1973 (the date of the Pinochet coup) on April 13 2002 when top-military officials with U.S state department and local oligarch backing seized power. The resemblance was quite uncanny: media blackouts, ‘dissolution’ of all representative institutions, violent repression of demonstrators, threats to bomb the Presidential Palace etc.
"?

So commie coup's are ok, and right wing ones unfiar then?

What a surprise.

 

[Epicurus]

So its ok to talk shit about the us invading then?

They are close enough to being the same thing, in your mind?

Yes you are right the Yankee imperialists would never dream of interfering with democratically elected Government in South America, good god what a trouble thing for people to say.

 

[JoePolitix]

So commie coup's are ok, and right wing ones unfiar then?

What a surprise.

Both Chile 1973 and Venezuela 2002 were CIA backed rightwing coups against center-left governments.

Both were a disgrace, I'm sure you'll agree

 

[pbman]

Both Chile 1973 and Venezuela 2002 were CIA backed rightwing coups against center-left governments.

Both were a disgrace, I'm sure you'll agree

Why?

I much prefer coups than siending of our boys to fight and die.

A lot less people get killed on both sides.

Kind of like killing hitler in 1938 or so, its a public service.

Anyways, i'll grant you chile in 73,it was the hight of the cold war, but i have a hard time seeing the inept liberal CIA of 2002, pulling that one off, or even thinking about it, in the run up to the iraq, war they supported iraq pretty strongly.

 

[JoePolitix]

Why?

I much prefer coups than siending of our boys to fight and die.

A lot less people get killed on both sides.

Kind of like killing hitler in 1938 or so, its a public service.

Under Pinochet 30,000 Chilens were murdered - a huge proportion of Chiles tiny population, but sure less gringos are killed....

On second thoughts what's the point of debating with an apologist for fascism?

 

[Sorry.]

So commie coup's are ok, and right wing ones unfiar then?

What a surprise.

which communist coup d'etat's has anyone on this thread approved then?

 

[pbman]

which communist coup d'etat's has anyone on this thread approved then?

Witch have they ever dissaproved of?

 

[pbman]

Under Pinochet 30,000 Chilens were murdered - a huge proportion of Chiles tiny population, but sure less gringos are killed....
?

Thats nothing check vietnam.

Wars are much worse than coups.

Most people are smart enough to konw this.

But the cold war started by commies is long over.

 

[pbman]

On second thoughts what's the point of debating with an apologist for fascism?

That would be you, apolgising for islam-facistst.

You guys like facists just fine, when the are oppsoed to us.

 

[Sorry.]

Witch have they ever dissaproved of?

What so I'm for something until I've "officially" voiced my dissaproval of them?

I've never heard you denounce feudalism before. You must think it's a great idea...

 

[Sorry.]

Thats nothing check vietnam.

Wars are much worse than coups.

Most people are smart enough to konw this.

Is that the choice? the Vietnam war or Augusto Pinochet? No wonder I'm so enthusiastic about this capitalism thing

 

[pbman]

What so I'm for something until I've "officially" voiced my dissaproval of them?
..

Pretty much.

lay down some serisoue critiziem of commie crimes, and i might assume you were against such things.

I've never heard you denounce feudalism before. You must think it's a great idea...

I have no opinion on fudalism, either way.

or on the sack of rome.

or on rome destroying carthage.

Or 10,000 other past events.

I'm not into trying to stake out moral views of past events.

Seams like a waste of time, is that big with you lefties then?