Interpreting Ahmadinejad's latest ravings

[nick1181]

Er, one person commented on it, and I'd be willing to be that that one person realised that he was reading a quote.

If you're so sure it's plagiarism, get hold of the publishers, explain what's happened and see if you can get them to press charges.

"oooh, but even if he did quote you as a source, he didn't enclose it in quotes... that's illeeeegal"

I think they'll politely get you off the line as quickly as possible.

With respect, you're talking out of your arse.

Still, enough from me.

 

[nino_savatte]

Er, one person commented on it, and I'd be willing to be that that one person realised that he was reading a quote.

If you're so sure it's plagiarism, get hold of the publishers, explain what's happened and see if you can get them to press charges.

"oooh, but even if he did quote you as a source, he didn't enclose it in quotes... that's illeeeegal"

I think they'll politely get you off the line as quickly as possible.

With respect, you're talking out of your arse.

Still, enough from me.

When I cite a piece of text from another source I either enclose it with quotation marks or enclose it in a text box. It is courtesy.

It really isn't that difficult...or perhaps you were one of those in school/college/university who thought plagiarising texts was the best way to acheive good marks.

Au contraire, it is you who is talking out of your arse.

 

[Streathamite]

Even though I don't really believe myself, saying you believe in god doesn't make you insane or irrational.

agreed not insane, but surely it DOES make you irrational, by definition. to me there seems nothing LESS rational than a monotheistic faith as we have them - an all powerful god, who none of us have seen, known to us via some words written on scrolls a few thousand years ago, whose validity as the written word of god we have to take on trust, just as we do the existence of that god. sounds like irrationality defined to me.

 

[Streathamite]

In a November 16 speech in Tehran to senior clerics who had come from all over Iran to hear him, the new president said that the main mission of his government was to "pave the path for the glorious reappearance of Imam Mehdi (may God hasten his reappearance)." The mystical 12th imam of Shiite Islam disappeared as a child in 941, and Twelver Shiites have awaited his reappearance ever since, believing that when he returns he will reign on earth for seven years, before bringing about the Last Judgment and the end of the world.

To prepare for the Mehdi, Ahmadinejad said, "Iran should turn into a mighty, advanced, and model Islamic society." Iranians should "refrain from leaning toward any Western school of thought" and abstain from "luxurious lives" and other excesses. Three months into Ahmadinejad's presidency, his views of the 12th imam are being widely discussed in Tehran. According to one rumor, as mayor of Tehran, Ahmadinejad drew up a new city plan for the imam's return.

In recent weeks, Ahmadinejad's aides have denied another rumor that he ordered his Cabinet to write a pact of loyalty with the 12th imam and throw it down a well near the holy city of Qom, where some believe the imam is hiding. Those who give credence to the rumor point to an early decision of his Cabinet to allocate $17 million to renovate the Jamkaran mosque, where devotees of the 12th imam have prayed for centuries.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=5&article_id=21113

let me explain how this 'debate' thing works johnny. You advance your opinions, rather than simply uncritically regurgitating great swathes of text from sundry links, and then others argue against your points with their opinions. not too hard to get a head on, is it now?
btw, yer daily star link's fucked, and there are 6 year olds who know more about Iran than Garton Ash.
especially

 

[Azrael23]

The guy is a fool. He`s playing right into the hands of the West.

They keep poking and he keeps reacting, giving the west exactly the excuse they need to invade and grab control of the oil production.

Its check. The Iranians might have invented Chess but they don`t seem particuarly proficient at grasping the "Grand Chessboard"..to quote Brzinsky.

 

[slaar]

agreed not insane, but surely it DOES make you irrational, by definition. to me there seems nothing LESS rational than a monotheistic faith as we have them - an all powerful god, who none of us have seen, known to us via some words written on scrolls a few thousand years ago, whose validity as the written word of god we have to take on trust, just as we do the existence of that god. sounds like irrationality defined to me.

Hmm. Belief in god is far from irrational, there isn't any incontrovertible proof either way. However, belief that you are doing what god wants, or god is telling you what to do, is.

 

[Streathamite]

OK, I should have said 'illogical', in that it tends to conflict with all the facts we know of our material world

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

let me explain how this 'debate' thing works johnny. You advance your opinions, rather than simply uncritically regurgitating great swathes of text from sundry links, and then others argue against your points with their opinions. not too hard to get a head on, is it now?
btw, yer daily star link's fucked, and there are 6 year olds who know more about Iran than Garton Ash.
especially

This 'debate' thing can be enlivened or enriched by the addition of facts germane to the debate. Since most of us, if not all of us, are not Iran scholars, we must go to others to get these facts.

Would you prefer to proceed with debate based upon assumption and conjecture?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Well actually, I think the link to the source at the bottom of the page is enough of an indication as to where the words come from. No quotes required.

Most people would make the connection between the passage and the link, but then, there are people of lesser intellectual ability amongst us, and perhaps they deserve greater consideration.

 

[spring-peeper]

Most people would make the connection between the passage and the link, but then, there are people of lesser intellectual ability amongst us, and perhaps they deserve greater consideration.

Thank you for taking people like me into account.

I have a very simple mind. If the words are inside the quote box, they are not those of the poster. If the words are not inside the box, they are the words and thoughts of the poster.

It would be very nice to know in advance if what I'm reading is the work of the poster or not.

I appreciate the extra work that it will entail to conform to these standards.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Thank you for taking people like me into account.

I have a very simple mind. If the words are inside the quote box, they are not those of the poster. If the words are not inside the box, they are the words and thoughts of the poster.

It would be very nice to know in advance if what I'm reading is the work of the poster or not.

I appreciate the extra work that it will entail to conform to these standards.

You weren't the person I had in mind when I made that post, actually.

 

[spring-peeper]

You weren't the person I had in mind when I made that post, actually.

Please stop doing it.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Please stop doing it.

Stop doing what?

 

[spring-peeper]

Stop doing what?

In the future, please put all quoted or cited information inside the quote function.

 

[nino_savatte]

This 'debate' thing can be enlivened or enriched by the addition of facts germane to the debate. Since most of us, if not all of us, are not Iran scholars, we must go to others to get these facts.

Would you prefer to proceed with debate based upon assumption and conjecture?

Debate is fine so long as you can win it by any means necessary. In which case, you've won nothing but a simulated victory...in your imagination.

 

[Streathamite]

This 'debate' thing can be enlivened or enriched by the addition of facts germane to the debate. Since most of us, if not all of us, are not Iran scholars, we must go to others to get these facts.

Would you prefer to proceed with debate based upon assumption and conjecture?

no, I'd prefer you to do something which shows you know more than how to trawl the web for highly partisan sites, and put up information which the rest of us can easily access; especially jokeland propaganda like that. quite frankly, you're ducking debate AND wasting everybody's time.

E2A: you found a link. aintcha clever?
and so fucking what?

 

[nino_savatte]

no, I'd prefer you to do something which shows you know more than how to trawl the web for highly partisan sites, and put up information which the rest of us can easily access; especially jokeland propaganda like that.
quite frankly, you're ducking debate AND wasting everybody's time.

Exactly, all we get from our Canadian 'cousin' is blatant trolling (what else can one call it?).

Debate? It's mass debate, in Johnny's case.

 

[Streathamite]

Ba-doom Tish!
yeah with most it would be called trolling...

 

[Streathamite]

btw, Johnny, one one of your links is an opinion piece by an oxbridge don who rarely visits Iran and whose field is European Studies, and the other an anonymous editorial in an expats' english-language paper in beirut (I note you weren't good enough to name the author, but he's a GOP hawk who was last based in the Middle East ooh, a decade ago, but runs an anti-Iran thinktank aiming to get the US to invade) ), they cease to be 'facts', and become 'opinons', or diatribe, or propaganda, or equivalent.
you clearly wouldn't know a 'fact' is if it bit you!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

no, I'd prefer you to do something which shows you know more than how to trawl the web for highly partisan sites, and put up information which the rest of us can easily access; especially jokeland propaganda like that. quite frankly, you're ducking debate AND wasting everybody's time.

E2A: you found a link. aintcha clever?
and so fucking what?

Funny that you didn't roll out this criticism when Backatcha Bandit committed the same sin that you accuse me of:

...........................................
18-04-2006, 04:16 AM
Backatcha Bandit
Rats, moths and rust... Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,661

Quote:
Mr Taheri is a member of Benador Associates, a Public Relations firm that is a clearing house for international Public Policy Speakers.




Quote:
About Benador

According to Benador's web site,[1] (http://www.benadorassociates.com/about.php) Benador Associates is a "Public Relations, Media and International Speakers Bureau." Benador was founded by Eleana Benador. Offices are "located in New York City as well as in Paris and London. However, the activities of the firm are expanding throughout the American continent, as well as in Europe and the Middle East."

Jim Lobe describes Benador as follows:

"When historians look back on the United States war in Iraq, they will almost certainly be struck by how a small group of mainly neo-conservative analysts and activists outside the administration were able to shape the US media debate in ways that made the drive to war so much easier than it might have been… But historians would be negligent if they ignored the day-to-day work of one person who, as much as anyone outside the administration, made their media ubiquity possible. Meet Eleana Benador, the Peruvian-born publicist for Perle, Woolsey, Michael Ledeen, Frank Gaffney and a dozen other prominent neo-conservatives whose hawkish opinions proved very hard to avoid for anyone who watched news talk shows or read the op-ed pages of major newspapers over the past 20 months."
— Jim Lobe, The Andean Condor among the Hawks (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/EH15Aa01.html), Asia Times, August 15, 2003.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...ador_Associates

..............................................

I assume there's one set of rules for those you agree with, and one for those with whom you disagree.

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

Funny that you didn't roll out this criticism when Backatcha Bandit committed the same sin that you accuse me of:

<compares postcounts>

Quality over mere quantity everytime.


Lick up the honey, Johnny. Ask no questions.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

<compares postcounts>

Quality over mere quantity everytime.


Lick up the honey, Johnny. Ask no questions.

Yes, your 'quote only' posts are righteous; mine are of the devil.

 

[Streathamite]

Funny that you didn't roll out this criticism when Backatcha Bandit committed the same sin that you accuse me of:

...........................................
18-04-2006, 04:16 AM
Backatcha Bandit
Rats, moths and rust... Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,661

Quote:
Mr Taheri is a member of Benador Associates, a Public Relations firm that is a clearing house for international Public Policy Speakers.




Quote:
About Benador

According to Benador's web site,[1] (http://www.benadorassociates.com/about.php) Benador Associates is a "Public Relations, Media and International Speakers Bureau." Benador was founded by Eleana Benador. Offices are "located in New York City as well as in Paris and London. However, the activities of the firm are expanding throughout the American continent, as well as in Europe and the Middle East."

Jim Lobe describes Benador as follows:

"When historians look back on the United States war in Iraq, they will almost certainly be struck by how a small group of mainly neo-conservative analysts and activists outside the administration were able to shape the US media debate in ways that made the drive to war so much easier than it might have been… But historians would be negligent if they ignored the day-to-day work of one person who, as much as anyone outside the administration, made their media ubiquity possible. Meet Eleana Benador, the Peruvian-born publicist for Perle, Woolsey, Michael Ledeen, Frank Gaffney and a dozen other prominent neo-conservatives whose hawkish opinions proved very hard to avoid for anyone who watched news talk shows or read the op-ed pages of major newspapers over the past 20 months."
— Jim Lobe, The Andean Condor among the Hawks (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/EH15Aa01.html), Asia Times, August 15, 2003.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...ador_Associates

..............................................

I assume there's one set of rules for those you agree with, and one for those with whom you disagree.

or maybe - you eejit - i didn't even notice BB's post? Am I meant to have an encyclopaedic memory about EVERY SINGLE OTHER POST on U75 now, so as to compare and contrast, before posting?

and besides which he is making a point - of a sort - about the writers partisanship and bias. not the way I'd do it, at all, but I'm not him.
YOURS on the other hand, are merely thought-free regurgitation of fact-free propaganda.
2/10 johnny, you really are out of form.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

or maybe - you eejit - i didn't even notice BB's post? Am I meant to have an encyclopaedic memory about EVERY SINGLE OTHER POST on U75 now, so as to compare and contrast, before posting?

and besides which he is making a point - of a sort - about the writers partisanship and bias. not the way I'd do it, at all, but I'm not him.
YOURS on the other hand, are merely thought-free regurgitation of fact-free propaganda.
2/10 johnny, you really are out of form.

Of course you didn't notice it. You only notice posts where I include a link without comment.

As for your second paragraph, well, surely your point was that my 'link only' post, didn't include my point or opinion. That's exactly the same with his.

Go and wipe the egg of your face before you start eating any crow.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I recall very clearly the first time I encountered JC2 here. He was promoting the Al Quaeda puppy gassing video

perhaps the most grotesquely crass piece of obvious war propaganda since the babies thrown from incubators story.

Although I'm sure we'll be treated to some more prize examples during the current 'War on Iran' promotional PR effort.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I recall very clearly the first time I encountered JC2 here. He was promoting the Al Quaeda puppy gassing video

perhaps the most grotesquely crass piece of obvious war propaganda since the babies thrown from incubators story.

Although I'm sure we'll be treated to some more prize examples during the current 'War on Iran' promotional PR effort.

I note that the 'puppy gassing video' is a CNN link. What was there to indicate at that time that it was false propaganda? For that matter, where is your proof that it is false?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

p.s. How was I 'promoting' the video?

Did I mention it, and provide a link?

Do you always use such misleading and inflammatory language?

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

Although I'm sure we'll be treated to some more prize examples during the current 'War on Iran' promotional PR effort.

If we're talking 'crass propaganda', let's not forget Johnny's enthusiasm in calling for the summary execution of Iraqi medical staff during the 'Jessica Lynch' "rescue":

To reiterate: I hope the rescuing troops shot every fucker within eyesight at that hospital.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=883530

Sick puppy.

 

[spring-peeper]

If we're talking 'crass propaganda', let's not forget Johnny's enthusiasm in calling for the summary execution of Iraqi medical staff during the 'Jessica Lynch' "rescue":

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=883530

Sick puppy.

from the same thread

Johnny - I don't think you meant that no ?

well, I kinda did. That whole thing makes me mad. Whatever they did to her was so traumatic, that her brain has created a dead zone.

What sort of emotion does that generate in you?

Why are you doing this? What are you trying to achieve?

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

Why are you doing this? What are you trying to achieve?

What I'd quite like to achive is to demonstrate to those with 'simple minds' a simple truth.

Perhaps you would like to compare, for example, JC2's regurgitations of crass, jingoistic propaganda with the post of mine that he is now piteously whinging about.

My post - while admittedly lacking a witty comment from myself - is designed to convey a single piece of information, namely that: Mr Taheri (the author of the crass, jingoistic propaganda in the O/P) is a member of Benador Associates, a Public Relations firm.

The second piece of text contained therein elucidates the reader as to the nature of this PR firm, specifically their role in disseminating crass, jingoistic propaganda in the media.

If you cannot spot the difference, the problem is not mine.


JC2's mission here is quite clearly the same as that of Benador: to promote crass, jingoistic propaganda. He also performs a role in preventing the establishment of consensus regarding many stark, simple truths. This is achived by his constant striving to drive discussions off at irrelevant tangents if they ever show signs of solidifying into a consensus that puts the lie to whatever crass, jingoistic propaganda he is serving up that day. I must admit he is very effective in this.

The fact that you, Spring-peeper, appear to think that JC2's reaffirmation of his desire that the staff and patients of an Iraqi hospital be summarily executed is OK merely because he tagged a mawkish appeal to emotion on the end of it speaks volumes about his effectiveness on you.