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Interpret this photography #6

Yuwipi Woman said:
I don't think we spend that much effort on Picasso.

:confused:

Please get out of a very interesting thread or, post with a little more eloquence.

Less of the cryptic stuff ;)

Tar.


Please, if you have a point to make, make it understandable to all who may be reading.
 
Stanley Edwards said:
:confused:

Please get out of a very interesting thread or, post with a little more eloquence.

Less of the cryptic stuff ;)

Tar.


Please, if you have a point to make, make it understandable to all who may be reading.

Patronizing twat.
 
Picasso: http://www.artchive.com/artchive/P/picasso_blue.html

Note that he was born in Malaga so lived a very short distance from Africa. Then note how he developed/evolved his ideas.

*Googling on Aboriginal art and the art of early civilizations*

During 2005 I actually lived very close to the town where the earliest known 3D/sculptural art has been discovered to date.

The Dama de Baza is now exhibited in Madrid. It's very advanced for it's estimated age of 1800 BC, but the world and the world of art has undoubtedly moved on.

The ability of man to recreate reality is as important as Picasso's abstract understanding and conveyance.

Some people will even argue that photography was the defining art form of the 21st Century.
 
I read through a few posts before looking at the swans and so expected to see some mediocre hackneyed photos, but quite the opposite: these are very impressive! Though I'm not at all into nature photography and your style is much slicker than I like, the pictures are good enough that I viewed the entire set whereas if I was bored I'd have given up after a few.

Are your photos art? Absolutely, I see no possible argument otherwise. You've put time and thought into your exposures, compositions, editing, etc -- creativity is clearly there.

Has this style of swan photography been done before? Of course, but that doesn't matter at all. My own style of people portraits is not even vaguely unique but I've never let that stop me. It's a silly criticism.

I suspect the real issue is that your style is commercial. These could easily be made into a calendar that would probably outsell any other calendar made of photos from this forum. The flak you're getting is the same as film critics that always dismiss Spielberg. Is it a crime to be populist?

Art should be judged separately on its ambitions and its fulfillment of those ambitions. You appear to have set out to take polished, cute and professional standard swan photos. Perhaps the slighly crusty, recovering from a comedown, politically angry crowd of urbanites has no interest in this particular ambition, but we have little right to criticise your execution of your aims. You're damn good at fluffy swans.
 
Stanley Edwards said:
I hope you're learning here. I am. Just because you're a newbie photographer doesn't mean you're not an artist. It's just a new medium. As, I've said earlier, I really like e number's attitude to photography. He puts the technicalities to one side and manages to portray his own feelings far better than those who are trying to hard to impress with technical know how.

For me the only thing i can think of that is technical about photography is controlling the camera and I am getting pretty good at that out of necessity. Then there is the eye to recognise and take a good picture and this develops imho as time goes by, from looking at other's work and your own. My eye is considerably different to what it was 5 years ago but it has plenty way to go yet and probably I think will always be developing.

Stanley Edwards said:
You should too IMO if you want to learn how to use photography as an artists medium more effectively.

But that is the thing, I want to use a camera to make photographs that I, and perhaps others (in the case of portraits for example) like to look at. Some of the photography that I like I do consider to be artistic, but at the same time it is also photography, as an oil painting is an oil painting and can also be an artwork.

Stanley Edwards said:
Any links to your photography?

No nothing online that I want to share at the moment, I am not seeking out opinions for the same reason that I recently stopped visiting a local camera club. At the moment I am concentrating on making images that I like to look at and I find the opinions of others just seem to tend to redirect me into what THEY like rather than what I like.
 
Stanley Edwards said:
The Dama de Baza is now exhibited in Madrid. It's very advanced for it's estimated age of 1800 BC, but the world and the world of art has undoubtedly moved on.

The ability of man to recreate reality is as important as Picasso's abstract understanding and conveyance.

Some people will even argue that photography was the defining art form of the 21st Century.

But for those of us who do not accept that 'the world of art has moved on' statements like 'very advanced for its estimated age' are just patronising to another culture and time.

Also 'the ability of man to recreate reality' is also to me a false trail. You probably mean the move from symbolism to optical perspective and illusion here.

In Western art pre-Rennaisance times figures were scaled according to their significance in the Bible. Art was commissioned by the Church or wealthy patrons with their after death futures in mind. Christ or Mary were drawn large while lesser mortals were drawn small.

The artists were not trying to create picture depth or illusion. The blue of Mary's cloak was symbolic and also the rarest and most expensive colour. This art is in no way less advanced than later perspective pictures of Canaletto who used the camera obscura to get perspective lines.

Of course when the Rennaissance really got under way perspective ruled which meant that pictures got scaled in proportion to that of a man. The eye-level was what created the scale.

One of the first at this period of time to experiment with perspective was Giotto. His early pictures of interiors of chapels at Padua show what looks like wrong perspective, he has multiple vanishing points instead of one. I don't think this makes them inferior artistically to later paintings with correct perspective. They have artistic merit beyond that one technical feature.

To equate realism with success in art is to miss out on possibly most of world art. Stanley, your own link to the aboriginal art source refers to a kind of art which had spiritual meaning to the aboriginals in relation to ancestors and was by no means realistic but more ritualistic.

The fact is that art in most periods of time and across cultures and continents has mostly been linked to religion. for many years Western art became about history or biography and the depiction of individuals. Much of this art was not of great importance. However it is very useful as historical evidence for the appearance of things and people. We all know what Henry VII looked like courtesy of Holbein for example

By the nineteenth century there were artists employed to paint portraits of people who wanted to publicise themselves. These artists were of various quality and there were cheaper ones for the slightly less well off. When photography was invented many of these cheaper artists adopted photography because it was easier and I imagine also fashionable.

Now that the camera could replicate reality it caused a challenge to art. If all that art was about was realism then photography would replace it. That didn't happen. Impressionism did though. It was a new aesthetic, an art about the way we see with shimmering light and a controlled pallette of complimentary colours - all inspired by scientific theories of vision. We are so familiar with impressionism today and most people like it a lot. It is the art of the nineteenth century and the origin of modern art. That does not mean that it represents progress. I say that it just represents its time which is no better than any other time.
 
alef said:
Are your photos art? Absolutely, I see no possible argument otherwise. You've put time and thought into your exposures, compositions, editing, etc -- creativity is clearly there.

alef, just to correct something, the photographs in the gallery are not mine sorry if that was the impression given, it was not intended.

Edit to add: I wish they were because I do rate this photographers images, they are particularly good at people pictures imho.
 
weltweit said:
...what THEY like rather than what I like.

Yep. It doesn't matter in my mind. Do it because you enjoy doing it. If others get it in the same way it's just a bonus.

I'm not you and you are not me. Different people. Different lives. Different tastes.

Thank fuck for that :)
 
weltweit said:
alef, just to correct something, the photographs in the gallery are not mine sorry if that was the impression given, it was not intended.

Ah, oops. Nevermind, discard my intrusion into this thread. As you were...
 
Hocus Eye. said:
B... We all know what Henry VII looked like courtesy of Holbein for example...

Oh no we don't. We only see Holbein's perception. This is why photography is so important to art in the 20th Century (did I say 21st earlier? - I meant 20th :D).

Photography is accepted as factual beyond any factual value to painting etc. And, yet, it can be distorted by personal perception.

Evolution. New technology. New ideas.
 
Stanley Edwards} Photography is accepted as factual beyond any factual value to painting etc. And said:
And different focal length lenses, selection of image area, exposure, depth of field, shutter speed, before we start on filters and post processing.

Photography is plausible (that is its power) but not necessarily factual.
 
Hocus Eye. said:
...
Photography is plausible (that is its power) but not necessarily factual.


Factual in the context of a 50mm lens on an SLR that has not been manipulated or, obscured in anyway. It is today's standard of fact in visual recording.
 
alef said:
Ah, oops. Nevermind, discard my intrusion into this thread. As you were...

alef you are most welcome on the thread :-)

I just wanted to make clear that I cannot take any credit for the photographs myself as they are not mine, though honestly I wish they were.
 
weltweit said:
alef you are most welcome on the thread :-)

I just wanted to make clear that I cannot take any credit for the photographs myself as they are not mine, though honestly I wish they were.

Cheers. I like the analogy of urban75 being a pub. In this case I feel there's a crowd at one table hotly debating an issue and I dove in and gave my speech only to find I'd totally misunderstood the starting premise. Perhaps my attempt at a quick exit was more a case of embarrassment than feeling unwelcome!

OK, so these are someone else's swans. Clearly they say something to you and you were curious of how others would respond...
 
alef said:
OK, so these are someone else's swans. Clearly they say something to you and you were curious of how others would respond...

Yes that is about it.

I also became fascinated with photographing swans at the same time this person did and I took a lot of photos, I had to admit to myself quite quickly that my photos were just not a patch on theirs and I am beginning as the time goes by perhaps to understand why.

They have called that gallery (although there are others) "swan lake" and I think that is because they recognise the beauty of the animal and its romance. I certainly find many of the images beautiful and somehow romantic. I do agree that they could make a calendar or perhaps a coffee table book.

Technically swans are a challenge as they are bright white and usually against a dark background (a little like a bride and groom) and the action shots this person has taken show real effort as they are hard to achieve without good fast focussing lenses and a real anticipation for what the animal is likely to do next.
 
weltweit said:
Yes that is about it.

I also became fascinated with photographing swans at the same time this person did ...


Any chance you can explain why. Clearly you're viewing the images with added info.
 
Why? why swans?

Well I like to photograph things that I think have some beauty, for example I think people are beautiful, many faceted and fascinating so I like photographing them, but I also like wild animals, birds, deer etc any subject really.

Swans are I think very elegant birds, they have that great swooping neck, shapely head, and white is a kind of purity, and on takeoff and landing they create a great commotion and wake in the water. They mate for life which I think is a bit romantic and their babies are uber cute all covered in downy grey feathers the colour of which they do not completely loose until they are I think 2 years old.

There were practical reasons also why I became interested in them photographically, which is that they are relatively accessible to me where I live, and I am able to get quite physically close to them without any intricate hides or anything.

I have also been focussed on trying to photograph a herd of wild deer which is a short cars drive from me, but they are extremely wary and it has just not been possible to get close enough to them when the light is good enough for decent photography. Again I find deer a very elegant animal attractive, svelte even.

The deer seem to wait until 400mm at f5.6 at iso1600 is 1 seconds worth of exposure or more before they all traipse out of the woodlands and parade about in front of me, the sods :-)
 
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