Internet blows CIA agents' cover

[editor]

I know what the popular version history says, and I dispute it. The web was logical jump to make based on decades of R&D in the US. It was a freak that a Brit did it first.

Oh well, if an anonymous and - as far as I can see - wholly unqualified poster called 'astronaut' disputes his peer reviewed achievements, then it must be true!

 

[fela fan]

I could possibly agree on the printing press, but NEVER the WWW. the number of people living under tyrannical regimes has NOT noticeably depreciated since the web became a mass tool in the early/mid 90s. i can't say the web has made me appreciably freer.

It's what the www does for american and british and australian people that counts. It's their countries that are doing the globe in, that are causing all manner of violence and terrorism and war.

If more and more people from these countries can come to see what their governments do for their foreign policy, and the impact it has on humans in other countries, then the internet will have done its job.

For in these days you cannot expect any print media to do that in any way. I believe the independent in britain tries, but honestly, how many brains are exposed to that paper?

The internet is a place with no obvious agenda. Media in anglo-western countries have obvious agendas.

 

[astronaut]

Oh well, if an anonymous and - as far as I can see - wholly unqualified poster called 'astronaut' disputes his peer reviewed achievements, then it must be true!

I'm allowed my opinions, just as you are, and where does it say in the FAQ that we have to declare our expertise before entering a debate?

 

[kyser_soze]

It's what the www does for american and british and australian people that counts. It's their countries that are doing the globe in, that are causing all manner of violence and terrorism and war.

If more and more people from these countries can come to see what their governments do for their foreign policy, and the impact it has on humans in other countries, then the internet will have done its job.

For in these days you cannot expect any print media to do that in any way. I believe the independent in britain tries, but honestly, how many brains are exposed to that paper?

The internet is a place with no obvious agenda. Media in anglo-western countries have obvious agendas.

*takes deep breath*

*exhales*

*returns to other threads*

Media in anglo-western countries have obvious agendas

ALL media, be it left, right, progressive, conservative, anarchist, communist, state, private, Anglo, Franco, Sino, Nippon have agendas you muppet.

 

[fela fan]

*takes deep breath*

*exhales*

*returns to other threads*



ALL media, be it left, right, progressive, conservative, anarchist, communist, state, private, Anglo, Franco, Sino, Nippon have agendas you muppet.

Well no. Not in the country where i am. And i talked about obvious agendas, with a meaning of its own. Not the same as mere 'agendas' of which you talk.

The papers i'm exposed to in my life are completely professional and non-profit/politically oriented.

I believe many papers in the developing world countries are similar. The ones in the anglo-speaking countries are owned by about three people and have massive agendas. And far far more propaganda and manipulation and censorship than the ones i'm used to in thailand.

Now, refute my experience man.

 

[kyser_soze]

Well no. Not in the country where i am. And i talked about obvious agendas, with a meaning of its own. Not the same as mere 'agendas' of which you talk.

The papers i'm exposed to in my life are completely professional and non-profit/politically oriented.

I believe many papers in the developing world countries are similar. The ones in the anglo-speaking countries are owned by about three people and have massive agendas. And far far more propaganda and manipulation and censorship than the ones i'm used to in thailand.

Now, refute my experience man.

Trade and professional titles will have an editorial policy concerning the profession they represent, and will also have an editorial view on how things should be done in that trade/profession.

And are you also saying that Thai newspapers aren't poltically biased? Or that a news organisation like Indymedia doesn't have it's own agenda based on it's politics and viewpoint? ALL news organisations put their own spin and slant on what happens in the world matey.

I thought you were less naive then that - or is this simply another expression of your 'US/UK bad/rest of world good' principle?

 

[editor]

I'm allowed my opinions, just as you are, and where does it say in the FAQ that we have to declare our expertise before entering a debate?

I'm equally entitled to question your claims if I believe them to be inaccurate.

 

[Streathamite]

I don't know about that. There have been very significant changes since the Internet came about and several revolutions have been Internet-powered. The Russian uprising against the anti-Gorbachev coup was supposedly Internet-enabled.

HUH???? By WHOM was this supposed? Evidence please, because I happen to think that's balls - not the least because the coup happened around the same time CERN first publicised the WWW project. i know news travels first but that would have been BLOODY quick work!!!

so WHICH revolutions have been internet-powered, or even facilitated by it, please? Revolutions are powered by people risking their lives, based on info-by-bush-telegraph, as it were.
so-hard and fast, link-sourced evidence please, or that, m'lud, is utter, total

That's because you already had all of your freedom when the web came about

oh ffs! Yes, I know.
And so had most/all of europe (the web gained widespread acceptance from 92-93 onward) all of N america, most of s america. Notwithstanding unfinished business in parts of eastern europe, MOST OF THE WORLD HAD (excepting arab & muslim states). so - given that comfortable majority of the planetary population, and given that the poor unfree parts are hitherto unwebbed, as it were; how the hell did it make us freer???

 

[In Bloom]

So, are you saying that the world would be a much better place with the Soviets running things or under an ummah?

Go to Eastern Europe and ask a few people living in appalling poverty as a result of the collapse of the Soviet Union, ask them how 'free' they feel.

 

[Streathamite]

I doubt the printing press did in it's first 10/15 years of existance either mate, so you're hardly comparing like with like. However, it's role as a disruptive technology is potentially as big, if not bigger, than the printing press - quite clearly since the US is paranoid about crypto and the NSA/CIA developed TALON or whatever it was called, and the Chinese have basically pulled the balls off Google and suchlike.

'Its' potential', I might come to agree. but astronaut didn't say that. He said,
and I quote;

the biggest contribution to freedom in the history of the world

This. is. bollix.
and the point is that the chinese HAVE pulled the cojones of google. as any tyrannous regime can and will.

 

[Streathamite]

Perhaps I should have said "biggest single contribution."

it would STILL have been wrong, whichever way you defined 'single

Perhaps in the West, but not in the ~80% of the world which is non-Western

err, now take the world's non-western population (you do realise we are the world's most populous part, don't you?), subtract from the remainder the proportion which ain't nowhere near being webbed up (hint most of rural africa, asia and S America) and do your maths again. You are WILDLY out.

 

[astronaut]

I'm equally entitled to question your claims if I believe them to be inaccurate.

Well, without waving my willy too much, I believe I'm more than qualified to push my opinion.

For instance, I have been using TCP/IP networks, e-mail, usenet, etc. since 1991, and was running Mosaic a few month after it was launched on PC.

Why should I feel that you're more qualified than me? (Running an extremely popular web site does not necessarily qualify you as an expert in Internet history.)

 

[editor]

Well, without waving my willy too much, I believe I'm more than qualified to judge the accuracy of my views.

Jolly good for you, then.

 

[astronaut]

Jolly good for you, then.

So you don't like me saying that I think I'm qualified?

 

[editor]

So you don't like me saying that I think I'm qualified?

I don't really care what you think to be honest.

With your dismissal of Berners Lee as being "utterly overrated" you've told me all I need to know about the credibility of your self-professed knowledge.

And why you think that running an early version of Mosaic makes you especially qualified to rubbish the peer-reviewed impact of his work is anyone's guess.

 

[Streathamite]

Well no. Not in the country where i am. And i talked about obvious agendas, with a meaning of its own. Not the same as mere 'agendas' of which you talk.

The papers i'm exposed to in my life are completely professional and non-profit/politically oriented.

I believe many papers in the developing world countries are similar. The ones in the anglo-speaking countries are owned by about three people and have massive agendas. And far far more propaganda and manipulation and censorship than the ones i'm used to in thailand.

Now, refute my experience man.

sorry, fela, but have to disagree. I think you may be defining 'agenda' too narrowly; their 'agenda' comes from the topics covered, and NOT covered, and from what angle they cover them. An agenda is inevitable, simply because journoes are thinking, sentient beings with an opinion. Even the most obscure of B2B media (and, as someone who has sold ads on H&V News, I know obscure, trust me) have an agenda - to serve and boost their industry.
Equally, the BBC is a news medium of impeccable integrity; but they, too, have an agenda
What your local press may NOT have is bias, which is something totally different.

 

[astronaut]

With your dismissal of Berners Lee as being "utterly overrated" you've told me all I need to know about the credibility of your self-professed knowledge.

And your unwillingness to listen to others and your eagerness to stick to the received version of history speaks volumes for you. I'm very disappointed by your lack of intellect.

 

[In Bloom]

And your unwillingness to listen to others and your eagerness to stick to the received version of history speaks volumes for you. I'm very disappointed by your lack of intellect.

You know, it might help if you presented some evidence for your position.

 

[TAE]

Irrelevant.

Only a complete halfwit would try and dismiss Berners-Lees contribution to the Internet as "minimal."

It seems that halfwit is you.

He invented what we call the World Wide Web, FFS!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

The WorldWideWeb is only a part of the internet.

But I would not call his contribution 'minimal' either.

 

[pk]

Nope - the WWW was invented by a British man, and the Americans hate to be reminded of this fact.

 

[Streathamite]

I doubt the printing press did in it's first 10/15 years of existance either mate, so you're hardly comparing like with like.

at the time of Mr caxton's wizard wheeze, only 5% of the populace were literate, so it could hardly have been expected to. however, Astronaut never once mentioned timeframes.

However, it's role as a disruptive technology is potentially as big, if not bigger,

yup, but that's ALL it is - potential. it is way too soon to say, I ain't nostradamus and I don't think you are either