intelligent design vs. evolution
- Thread starter Termite Man
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That doesn't say very much. Why must evil exist for good to exist? Though exist is a bit of an iffy term for this.phildwyer said:
Just to help things along, I can see one argument for this (that without suffering, good becomes meaningless), but in that case, surely we'd be better off with neither. A lot less messy, on the whole.
Purdie
there are no stars, only suns
gurrier said:
Not as such. I believe in evolutionary design. Like creation wasn't meant to happen but it, that was, blew a fuse;the whole thing went bang and it sort of all started then ... humans are what they are because they serve the purpose of sorting the mess out and one day this instigator will get its act together and reclaim what belongs to it. Consciousness.
Purdie
there are no stars, only suns
8ball said:
Bit like Jules Verne maybe...
Serious, i believe in some sort of creator. Saying the universe came out of a Big Bang when two gas clouds collided is all very good and well. But then no one seems prepared to answer me when i ask where the original gas clouds that caused the Big Bang origiinated from.
Now to say we were created in God's image is bullshit as well. I mean look at humans ... we're not exactly the prime examples of beauty when it comes to the animal kingdom i would say.
So unless i get an answer as to where the original gas clouds that caused the Big Bang came from i will settle for a Creator that lost his temper and literally blew up.
phildwyer said:
Categories cannot become obsolete if they don't exist in the first place.
I don't see evil, i see sad, damaged, self-deluded, deranged, sociopathic actions that create hell on earth for those shoe-horned into that particular life as well as those around them.
But surely we digress....
Do you see ID as a workable scientific hypothesis or as a valid, but faith-based, theological argument that has no place in a secular education system?
So god created the holocaust so that, um, the rest of us would appreciate nice things. Or maybe he was testing us by seeing if we would still believe in a benign god in a world where millions of innocents could be massacred for no particular reason?phildwyer said:
He's moving from the 'freak' category to the 'cunt' category.
Why do you worship this mass murdering fucker?
8ball
World is a fuck
Well, if you're going to do that mangled-past-participle thing . . though apparently some Cornish do that too.
Anyway, good and evil exist as concepts but not as chemically identifiable qualities, and ID is silly fundies trying to trick naive folk who buy expensive shampoo.
I once had an argument with someone who cast the net for the evolution 'conspiracy' so wide that I had to be a part of it (scientist, see), at which point I had to congratulate him on his detective work as it felt silly to carry on arguing.
Anyway, good and evil exist as concepts but not as chemically identifiable qualities, and ID is silly fundies trying to trick naive folk who buy expensive shampoo.
I once had an argument with someone who cast the net for the evolution 'conspiracy' so wide that I had to be a part of it (scientist, see), at which point I had to congratulate him on his detective work as it felt silly to carry on arguing.
That's not exactly the big bang. Are you thinking of colliding 'brane theory?Purdie said:
The big bang was the expansion of space-time from a singularity, it's not really coherent to ask what came before the big bang, its like asking what's North of the North Pole. However, even if you stick God in there as an explanation, why God? Why does the "first cause" or "necessary entity" need to be a conscious, supernatural being?
Purdie
there are no stars, only suns
In Bloom said:
No good on theories ... srry.
Sticking God in there is more laziness of expression than anything else. I don't think the first cause needs to necessarily be conscious or supermatural. I would go further than that and not even call it a being. An entity, in the sense of, something that just is. Like a singularity.
But then everything is cause and effect. So why would the singularity become a plurality? But then maybe that is the "brane theory". Too late for that now though.
I love it, it's my favourite
Space-Time .... ying yang ... never thought of it like that.
Trouble with theories is i'm not very mathemathically inclined. Is my downfall ... 
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the problem with a singularity is that all the known laws of time and space break down, because you have an "object" so small that it has no dimensions containing all the matter and energy in the universe. Hence notions like "cause and effect" will tend to go all kerflooey. Mind blowing stuffPurdie said:No good on theories ... srry.
Sticking God in there is more laziness of expression than anything else. I don't think the first cause needs to necessarily be conscious or supermatural. I would go further than that and not even call it a being. An entity, in the sense of, something that just is. Like a singularity.
But then everything is cause and effect. So why would the singularity become a plurality? But then maybe that is the "brane theory". Too late for that now though.
*waits for one of urban75's resident physicists to come along and shout at me*
Purdie
there are no stars, only suns
In Bloom said:I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the problem with a singularity is that all the known laws of time and space break down, because you have an "object" so small that it has no dimensions containing all the matter and energy in the universe. Hence notions like "cause and effect" will tend to go all kerflooey. Mind blowing stuff
Many brain-frying sessions ago ... isn't it that two of Einstein's theories don't add up and they are still looking for a grand unified theory? Not so much mind blowing as brain frying ...
*goes and hides ...*
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
phildwyer said:
heh, that was always my problem with god. if god isn't good i don't want to know. i ain't following someone who will let that sort of shit happen, no matter what. i'll only work for decent management.
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