Shechemite
Justice for Harvey
first they came for the socialists eh?
Institutional misogyny
- Thread starter Marty1
- Start date
first they came for the socialists eh?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
There are no doubt multiple factors in play but I’ve also little doubt that the people who are now decrying the lack of action by the police are the same folk who would have been screaming about institutional racism had these groups been pursued with more vigour. The last line of your post and some others here are examples. This provenly racist institution has missed out on a fantastic opportunity to nail elements of the Pakistani Muslim community to the wall in favour of enacting classism instead?
The first reaction of many on the left, including many here, when faced with criticism of these overwhelmingly Muslim gangs is to suspect the motivations of those being critical, resulting in the discourse being shut down and leaving an open goal for the far right.
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Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
They also have never been known to be dismissive of the testimony of rape and sexual assault complaintants. No wonder they arrested John Worboys so quickly.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
You've missed out the sexism which is at the very heart of this (though I agree that it's also classist.) If those girls had been believed (in their massive numbers) then action could have been taken against the perpetrators regardless of any characteristics. Abuse is abuse. A closed ring of abuse is still abuse, and it may have different factors which make it harder to tackle, such as cultural and language differences but the police simply didn't believe what they were being told, because mouthy, aggressive fourteen year old girls in the care system don't really have any currency.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
As I said, there are multiple factors at play. The police/politicians/racism one is the one I mentioned because it was a major topic of MN’s show on Sunday after this copper admitted that it was a prime reason for the lack of action.
The podcast is probably worth listening to.
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JimW
支那暗杀团
This is all just you projecting (mass outcry at the arrest of a paedo gang, yeah right) while at the same time taking the police at face value like a chump. You don't have to think they're actively pursuing a racist agenda to spot they are also noted for their many failings in that regard.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Obvious nonsense but you make my point once again. You're attacking me ("projecting") for engaging with the subject matter in the OP, which is relevant. Where's the mass outcry? "Police at face value like a chump"? Do me a favour. That entire show was about the police failings and reaction to these incidents. Did you listen to it? But you'd rather abuse me for discussing it from the perspective offered than dare to accept that there could be an element of accuracy which warrants discussion.
Anyway, that's it. The ex chief of police was lying. Nothing to see here. Bin/ban/whatever ...
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JimW
支那暗杀团
Projecting because you've ascribed motivations to me I haven't got. Do the same to you and it's an attack
Diddums.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Oh grow up, ffs Jim. I didn't call you a chump.Projecting because you've ascribed motivations to me I haven't got. Do the same to you and it's an attack
If you didn't listen to the full show just listen to MN's first 10 minutes. Click on the top vid here:
Maajid Nawaz powerfully calls for a national inquiry into grooming gangs
Maajid Nawaz is calling for a national inquiry, similar to the one into Stephen Lawrence's murder, into grooming gangs in the United Kingdom.
www.lbc.co.uk
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I guess there'll be plenty more of this to come
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
there surely willI guess there'll be plenty more of this to come
JimW
支那暗杀团
Not available hereOh grow up, ffs Jim. I didn't call you a chump.
If you didn't listen to the full show just listen to MN's first 10 minutes. Click on the top vid here:
Maajid Nawaz powerfully calls for a national inquiry into grooming gangs
Maajid Nawaz is calling for a national inquiry, similar to the one into Stephen Lawrence's murder, into grooming gangs in the United Kingdom.
cupid_stunt
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My class hatred a bit much for you? Awww diddums.I guess there'll be plenty more of this to come
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Is that what it is then? I've no idea who you are or what your politics are.
You seem like a twat though.
I have the same impression of you, as do I'm sure many people.
Yeah, what possible reason could someone have for hating a Lib Dem? The mind boggles doesn't it!
JimW
支那暗杀团
Proxies all blocked too, for our own good.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
It's a rant but a good one. His view is that the care system, police, and (primarily Labour) councils covered up or ignored pleas and the fear of being labelled racist was a major reason. Sarah Champion resigned after being called "incendiary and irresponsible" by a fellow Labour MP for writing an opinion piece about the problem of white girls being raped by Pakistani men. Julie Bindel was unable to get editors to publish similar stories because they feared the backlash from the left. Ann Cryer also poorly treated for the same stuff, etc etc. He also discusses religious attitudes among some Muslims towards non-muslim white girls and states that whilst not the cause, it's a factor, citing this piece by grooming gang survivor, Ella Hill.Not available here
If a white bloke said what he does there he'd be fired and called a racist.
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8ball
As seen on TikTok
And is also a factor in how abusers choose victims, according to some stuff I have read.
JimW
支那暗杀团
I really think that's mostly post hoc rationalising, recall that docudrama with Maxine Peake based on testimony. She plays the woman running a centre for the girls who tries to flag it up but gets knocked back because no one cares for the victims, "bad girls" brought it on themselves.
Expect shitty top down multicultural played a part too but really it's the contempt or unconcern for the victims that stands out.
Insisting on whats essentially a PC gone mad narrative just smacks of opportunists shoehorning their agenda in.
8ball
As seen on TikTok
What you say is true for anyone insisting this is down to just one thing.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Exactly. And nobody is doing that. But there's this elephant in the room that the left won't discuss. Nawaz points out that the murder of one black guy, Stephen Lawrence, quite rightly triggered national outrage and the McPherson Enquiry which eventually labelled a whole police force as institutionally racist. Yet thousands of rapes of white girls by Pakistani men trigger nothing but pearl clutching, excuses, and discussion of anything but the racist backgrounds of those committing the rapes. Look at these boards; dozens of SL threads with hundreds and hundreds of posts, yet barely anything about Rotherham etc. When it does come up discussion is closed down with posters attacked as bigots. The narrative is left to the far right.
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8ball
As seen on TikTok
I can't really argue with you here, it's been a gift to the far right and the centre-to-leftish media have steered well clear.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
I've seen it on these boards. Racism is rightly castigated and called out. Misogyny is tolerated.
Athos
Well-Known Member
What useful discussion could be had around the fact that these offenders are of Pakistani desent?
It is is on a massive scale and until something is done like an enquiry, it will be a running sore in this country and fuel division, etc.
Over time, more will come out, in Sheffield, for some time, Kosovan men many well over 18, would be seen every single day with very young girls, many under 16, my friend was a nanny to a DI, and very very left wing(she), she was told they were pimping these girls on a large scale, it was constant talk amongst people who frequented that area gardens, etc,
that is not all the Kosovan refugees by any means,
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8ball
As seen on TikTok
Have the mods taken an interest in such cases where flagged up?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Perhaps to develop an understanding of why it happened and to challenge it in future? To remove the narrative from the sole hands of the far right by the left not being seen to be ignoring it? To signal acceptance of the fact that such a crime exists? To acknowledge to the victims that we believe them?
Was it not useful to know that Stephen Lawrence's killers were white racist scumbags? Why was their colour and motivation important?
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Athos
Well-Known Member
What understanding is gained by knowing the offenders were of Pakistani descent? It tells us some Pakistani men are in peadophile rings that prey on marginalised white girls. But, since some aren't, and since some white men are, then what? What investigative or preventative opportunities does knowing the ethnicity of the offenders in this case rasie for future cases? Seems to me to be very limited; their race isn't a significant factor. I just don't buy the police's ex post facto justification that their failings were essentially well-meaning i.e. anti-racist.
I accept there's a need to avoid giving the narrative to the right. But there's also a need not to give credence to the idea that race is an important factor. I think a sensible approach would be to not dismiss as a racist anyone who asks questions about race, but to briefly explain why race isn't a significant factor, and move on.
In the Lawrence investigation, the identity of the killers was (initially) unknown, so of course any identifying characteristic was potentially useful. As was establishing a motive.
But the Mcapherson Inquiry focussed on the police response (or lack of it) becuase of the race of the victim. Clearly, in this case, the victims' race was of far less significance than their class.
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