Infiltration of groups, movements and parties: How much is it happening?

[8den]

I suspect it happens alot less frequently in reality.

There's an awful lot of discussion about it among left groups, (as I'm sure there is in far right) it's about creating a sense of self importance. If you think you've been infiltrated, well that means someone notices you and thinks what you are doing is significant enough to be reported. Its a status symbol.

I mean it does happen, a friend of mine's parents, back in ireland were heavily involved in SF (SF back in the sixities, before everything kicked off, were quite a left wing liberal party, it was radicalised by the troubles, and they left as it happened). Anywho, this couple did as did many others have special branch files on them, their daughter, used the FOI act, to get them, and gave them copies as an anniversary present.

 

[8den]

mind you if your a middle manger in MI5 and one of your spooks steps out of line
pick up the white fluffy cat and "Ah jenkins you have a choice 6 months up a tree with hippys or 6months with the SWP "
bwhahahaaaaaaaaaaa

Six months up a tree no contest.

 

[belboid]

With respec', I was a member of the SWP and I did suspect a number of them were dodgy. It is not a lie or bullshit.

hmmm.so, you were a member for 'sevral years' yet only met 20 people, of which 20% were state of some kind.

Yeah, right.

 

[John Grean]

hmmm.so, you were a member for 'sevral years' yet only met 20 people, of which 20% were state of some kind.

Yeah, right.

I didn't say I was a member several years, I said I was a member several years ago.

And yes, I would say that of the hundreds of people I encountered, I only knew about 20 of them to a greater or lesser degree.

But of the 3 or 4 who I suspected were state agents, some of these were among the hundreds I didn't know personally. Sometimes, you just get a bad feeling about someone by the look of them.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Now we've been expelled we'll obviously hope they try to send someone to infiltrate us and if not we'll demand an explanation!

If you're that keen why not go to them, and affiliate to the UK/Ireland 9.11 Truth Campaign> Secretary, A. Machon, prominent cult-leader D Shayler (I kid you not).

 

[X-77]

They even got their photo taken with George Galloway!!!

wow and I thought only the very privileged ever managed that mighty feat

 

[audiotech]

I didn't say I was a member several years, I said I was a member several years ago.

And yes, I would say that of the hundreds of people I encountered, I only knew about 20 of them to a greater or lesser degree.

But of the 3 or 4 who I suspected were state agents, some of these were among the hundreds I didn't know personally. Sometimes, you just get a bad feeling about someone by the look of them.

Were these 3, or 4 all in the same special geographical branch of the SWP?

 

[John Grean]

???

Were these 3, or 4 all in the same special geographical branch of the SWP?

I'm not quite sure what this comment means!

The answer is no.

Various people I saw at the SWp's Marxism conferences were definitely state agents. And this included, I suspect, some people who were condescending to the masses from the platform!

 

[editor]

In the McLibel documentary, it was said that there were sometimes as many spooks as activists at London Greenpeace meetings.

That would never happen to urban, and me and my five new friends sat with me now are all absolutely sure of that.

 

[neprimerimye]

Various people I saw at the SWp's Marxism conferences were definitely state agents. And this included, I suspect, some people who were condescending to the masses from the platform!

How did you know just from looking that specific individuals were state agents? I'm genuinly curious because with such startling powers of deduction as you are making claim to you could have a fantastic career in security. No need for metal detectors at airports just one glance from John Grean and agents of nefarious powers are instantly revealed!

 

[Hocus Eye.]

I'm not quite sure what this comment means!

The answer is no.

So you were a member for more than one year (you attended Marxism more than once) some years ago but you do not know about the branch structure of the SWP.

No I don't believe you. You work for Mi5 - probably.

 

[neprimerimye]

So you were a member for more than one year (you attended Marxism more than once) some years ago but you do not know about the branch structure of the SWP.

No I don't believe you. You work for Mi5 - probably.

Oh be fair the branch structure of the SWP changes every few years as each new turn falls flat.

 

[John Grean]

wow and I thought only the very privileged ever managed that mighty feat

I think you would have to admit it was quite a coup for the BNP!

Although to quote the gorgeous one "I'm not as much of a Marxist as everyone thinks".

Funny you should say that George because I didn't think you or the SWP were fucking Marxists!

 

[audiotech]

I think you would have to admit it was quite a coup for the BNP!

Although to quote the gorgeous one "I'm not as much of a Marxist as everyone thinks".

Funny you should say that George because I didn't think you or the SWP were fucking Marxists!

No suprise that Galloway is no Marxist. If you have ever listened to any of his speeches in Parliament (I expect not) when he was a loyal member of the Labour party, then you will know that he is a firm believer in parliamentary democracy and will defend that to the hilt.

 

[belboid]

he is the most consistent anti-imperialist in the world according to Rees tho!

 

[likesfish]

used to know somebody who was in the sparticus leaugue claimed they had a spook who would attend there meetings and afterwards would destroy the speakers arguement using better marxist logic.
Its not that they minded being infltrated what hacked them off was the spook
knew more than they did

 

[8den]

I'm not quite sure what this comment means!

The answer is no.

Various people I saw at the SWp's Marxism conferences were definitely state agents. And this included, I suspect, some people who were condescending to the masses from the platform!

Like I said these groups want to believe they're infiltrated by the state to make them feel important.

Five minutes in a room with the SWP and you realise they couldn't overthrow a post office never mind the state.

 

[Jografer]

Like I said these groups want to believe they're infiltrated by the state to make them feel important.

Five minutes in a room with the SWP and you realise they couldn't overthrow a post office never mind the state.

yup.... no-one has yet explained why the security services would want to infiltrate the 'left'......

 

[LLETSA]

yup.... no-one has yet explained why the security services would want to infiltrate the 'left'......

To make sure it remains as ineffective as it already is, perhaps?

 

[lostexpectation]

Spying yes, steering things in ways the state can control - unlikely.

In the McLibel documentary, it was said that there were sometimes as many spooks as activists at London Greenpeace meetings. And there were actually 2 groups of infiltrators who hadn't been told about each other. There were employed by McDonalds rather than the state though.

yeah I mean if a broad meeting you could have numerous companies wanting their security bods there...

 

[sparticus]

If you're that keen why not go to them, and affiliate to the UK/Ireland 9.11 Truth Campaign> Secretary, A. Machon, prominent cult-leader D Shayler (I kid you not).

Hmmm

I'm sure you know lots

I would love to read your fantastic piece of journalism, but I can't be arsed to give you any money.

But if you send me a copy I'll help you correct any factual errors

 

[sparticus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/2207257.stm
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foi/story/0,9061,1484704,00.html

'They' were all over the NUM during the miners strike

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Hmmm

I'm sure you know lots

I would love to read your fantastic piece of journalism, but I can't be arsed to give you any money.

But if you send me a copy I'll help you correct any factual errors

go fuck yourself, fool.

 

[8den]

To make sure it remains as ineffective as it already is, perhaps?

Are you really telling me the only reason the SWP is an ineffectitual tool aganist the state because at every level they're riddled with the spies.

Wait..... The dogmatic structure, the relentess forcing of new recruits to sell papers constantly, the tedious chanting....yes its all a plot, by the state to drive students away from leftwing politics......

We're through the looking glass here people

They' were all over the NUM during the miners strike

Thats alot more plausible than the state inflitrating the SWP or the Greens.

-The NUM at the height of the strikes engaged in massive pitched battles with the police

-The SWP enjoy marching around pointless and leeching onto whatever left wing cause de jour in a vain hope of scooping up the odd extra paper seller.

 

[LLETSA]

Are you really telling me the only reason the SWP is an ineffectitual tool aganist the state because at every level they're riddled with the spies.

Did I say that?

Leaving aside the fact that the post I replied to mentioned 'the left', and not specifically the SWP.

It is true, however, that the rest of the left uses the SWP as a scapegoat to obscure its own shortcomings.

 

[audiotech]

-The NUM at the height of the strikes engaged in massive pitched battles with the police

-The SWP enjoy marching around pointless and leeching onto whatever left wing cause de jour in a vain hope of scooping up the odd extra paper seller.

Happy days! On NUM picket lines with one copper asking me if he could have a copy of SW? 'Well you can certainly afford one with the amount of overtime your on', was my rapid riposte. 'Can you read btw' being another. Later, being about to be battered with a 'six foot bloody truncheon' (to quote the band Crisis) and defending myself pretty well under the circumstance.

Not a member of the SWP now, but during that dispute they supported the miners consistently to the bitter end in every way they could. They even recruited a few miners along the way, some I made solid friendships with, particularly within the miners support group I was involved with.

 

[sparticus]

go fuck yourself, fool.

So that's your response is it to someone knows a damn sight more about the origins and current activities of the 9/11 truth movement in this country including the activities of David Shayler and Annie Machon than you ever will.

 

[brasicritique]

Infiltration left right and centre. Stating the obvious; these boards etc you know who you are.Be fair people, at the end of the day MI5 have to send new agents on low risk missions for training, so where beter to start than so called radical fringe groups i mean its not as if these groups really ever want to change anything they are just full of rebels without a clue/cause. ( hence angst ridden student membership ). So your infiltrated so what? Just get on with it, whatever IT is. MI5 only recruit middleclass white people/ kids straight out of uni for feild ops, (Black/muslim tokenism aside). Stupid point i can see why some of you would have trouble finding spies.My mistake.

On the bright side at least some of you get to boast on these boards about how your membership has increased by one person while splitting hairs on trotskys head.

And as for the MI5 agents power being able to sew trouble and disrupt/discredit various political partys/movements well thats a joke.The macliebal 2 still beat mcdonalds. Fancy dress fathers for justice grab news headlines for their cause. I think it is a cheek for some people to blame MI5 infiltration for the intellectual short comings of thier own political ideaologies and arguments especially when they failing to reach out to the wider general public.Direct action, media stunts, the bomb, passive resistence and the ballot box work. Whinging does not.

Informal MI5 agents working in the media ( ie maxwell & miners) and writing for newspapers are a different story. I wonder why no one has raised that yet oooooo...spooky

 

[8den]

Call me a spelling nazi but I kinda assume some who cannot spell Mclibel shouldn't be question the political inflitration of Sky News and The Times (c'mere I know er....this fella....nah not like that, he's sound, he nows the queen, c'mere, I can get you swan......)

 

[brasicritique]

You are a spelling nazi. And a bad character actor to boot. I didnt see the rule on Urban 75 that said ' correct grammer and spelling only' But i am sure the intellectual commisars such as yourself on this site will soon be whinging away to get one.