Indyref 2

Discussion in 'Scotland/Alba' started by weepiper, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. Corax

    Corax Luke 5:16

    If they do get independence, have the SNP given any indication of citizenship qualifications? My granddad was Scottish, and I'm rather hoping I could get a passport.
  2. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    You're covered.

    "At the point of independence, this Government proposes an inclusive model of citizenship for people whether or not they define themselves as primarily or exclusively Scottish or wish to become a Scottish passport holder. People in Scotland are accustomed to multiple identities, be they national, regional, ethnic, linguistic or religious, and a commitment to a multi-cultural Scotland will be a cornerstone of the nation on independence.

    We plan that British citizens habitually resident in Scotland on independence will be considered Scottish citizens. This will include British citizens who hold dual citizenship with another country. Scottish born British citizens currently living outside of Scotland will also be considered Scottish citizens.

    Following independence, other people will be able to apply for Scottish citizenship. For example, citizenship by descent will be available to those who have a parent or grandparent who qualifies for Scottish citizenship. Those who have a demonstrable connection to Scotland and have spent at least ten years living here at some stage, whether as a child or an adult, will also have the opportunity to apply for citizenship. Migrants on qualifying visas will also have the option of applying for naturalisation as a Scottish citizen."

    Scotland's Future
  3. Corax

    Corax Luke 5:16


    Thanks Danny.
    danny la rouge likes this.
  4. Poi E

    Poi E Pessimism: a valuable protection against quackery.

    Good news for my wife and I, both with grandads born in Glasgow.
    danny la rouge likes this.
  5. pogofish

    pogofish Testicle Hairstyle

    Is anybody else noticing the sheer volume of shite coming through the door from the Tories yet?

    Almost every other day, something else gets delivered - either by hand from the local guys or from three different "consulting" groups who seem to be handing the mailshots. It outnumbers the electoral communication from all the other parties several-fold- You might think they were a little spooked about things?

    Best was the "personal" invitation to come along and meet Ruth Davidson today - Re-puttying my shed windows was much more important! :D
    equationgirl, weepiper, Poi E and 2 others like this.
  6. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Well-Known Member

    I've had nothing from labour or ukip this time (so far but come one, a week to go). Only SNP and tories, the lines are drawn obviously. Everyone knows where labour stands (or kneels). In many places tories and labour are not fielding enough candidates to win, only to form a coalition majority. There's your red tories. That's the local the general one they're not going to contest each other in seats where it counts, that's guaranteed.

    (I do love ceremoniously standing by the recycle bin and ripping things up.)

    I have noticed some things the last week though. 6 or 7 documented accounts of racism being publicised with politicians.

    One child sex thing with another one.

    3 alleged anthrax centre shut down...massive concern.

    Stunning stuff. The threat of anthrax whilst naming a political party is the definition of terrorism.

    The yoons have absolutely ignored it all...refused to comment on any of it. Finding it in the papers is a task.

    This thread has been quiet too.
    Celyn and pogofish like this.
  7. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    Yes, a huge amount. Ostensibly about the local government elections, though not mentioning local politics. It'll be interesting to see how it's costed in election expenses. Is it going to appear on the expenses for those standing for council in my ward? The spending limit per candidate in a local election is £740 plus 6p per elector in the ward. Not quite sure how that works with the modern multi member wards but I suppose you divide the electorate by the number of councillors representing the ward. There's about 11,000 electors in my ward and 4 councillors. So that'd be 2750 per councillor. So spending should be £740 + £165 = £915 per candidate.

    I wish I'd kept a sample of each Tory leaflet to see how they attribute them.
    pogofish likes this.
  8. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Well-Known Member

  9. geminisnake

    geminisnake a complex mass of conflicting ideas

    Not a thing, for the locals or the GE. We used to get letters from the tories but not this time, yet. Tbh apart from two leaflets from the tartan tories you wouldn't even know there was local elections on here.
    pogofish likes this.
  10. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Well-Known Member

    There's not been many tory ones this week because their printers have run out of the letters I,N,D,E,C and P :)
  11. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    Who are the Taran Tories in this case?

    It's interesting you're not getting the volume others are.
  12. geminisnake

    geminisnake a complex mass of conflicting ideas

    SNP, they have cut services, introduced charges for things that should be covered by council tax, have the lowest school uniform help in Scotland iirc. I will NOT be voting for them at local level. At national level not a problem cos Mike Weir is a good guy.
    The rest of Scotland need to get rid of Labour/Yoon coalitions, but we've had 'SNP' councils for about 30 yrs now and they are just as shite and corrupt as GCC imo. The turnout will I suspect be stupidly low. We had a coalition council once in the last 30 yrs and they were just as shite. The standard of folk at councillor level is awful :(

    It is strange we've heard diddly considering the tories have this seat in their list of targets.
    danny la rouge likes this.
  13. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    The Tories maybe have you down as an SNP supporter from a previous canvas and are hoping you won't vote.

    My daughters get named, addressed mailings from the Tories every other day. Which is going to be very counterproductive.
    geminisnake likes this.
  14. TheHoodedClaw

    TheHoodedClaw acknowledging ur soup leg

    I've had nowt through the door from any party. Rarely ever do, come to think of it.
  15. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    There's a number of reasons that might be. I know where you are the SNP is pretty active, but maybe you're in a ballot box area that's had high support for them and high voting turnout in the past, so not a canvas priority. Or if you aren't on the electoral register, they don't bother you. Or if you are but show up on spent registers as a non voter, they won't bother you. Or if you've been canvassed in the past and scored strongly for another party they won't bother you.

    I never get canvased, probably because I'm a regular non voter on the spent registers for GEs.
  16. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    So, Corbyn has launched the Labour manifesto today. Here's what comes under the heading "Scotland". Its first words.

    "Labour opposes a second Scottish independence referendum. It is unwanted and unnecessary, and we
    will campaign tirelessly to ensure Scotland remains part of the UK."

    That is clunkingly bad.
    Sue and Celyn like this.
  17. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.


    Here's the whole of its section on Scotland. All of it.
    Poi E and Celyn like this.
  18. Wilf

    Wilf Dances like a Christian

    That really is dreadful. It doesn't even work as a political strategy for Labour themselves.
    Celyn and danny la rouge like this.
  19. Sue

    Sue Well-Known Member

    Yep. Seems to me the only strategy that could revive their fortunes is to back independence and hope it happens as then there's everything to play for. Until then...
    Poi E, Celyn and Wilf like this.
  20. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    Labour Party HQ thinking:

    Indy ref 1: "Please stay, Scotland, or we'll never have a Labour government again"

    Indy ref 2: "Please go, Scotland, or we'll never have a Labour government again"
    Poi E likes this.
  21. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    "We're in a strange (and unexpected) situation where, for indy, we can now say 'vote No, vote DUP'. Brexit was never going to be good for unionists – at least not during the process. But the impression that at least it was being handled authoritatively would have helped.

    The next two years were going to be painful, but they might have looked orderly. That's less likely. And Ruth Davidson's Tories may have their heads high in Scotland right now, but will it last? Can they really manage to avoid all responsibility for the actions of a badly damaged UK Tory leadership?"
    Poi E and equationgirl like this.
  22. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    Nicola Sturgeon to reveal her updated indyref2 plans

    You'll recall that, after the referendum motion being passed by Holyrood, Sturgeon said she'd set out the options after the Easter recess, but then May announced the GE, so the announcement was delayed. This afternoon appears to be the awaited announcement.

    Some in the media have, in the days after the GE, suggested that Sturgeon might shelf the referendum "because of the SNP's showing". This is not likely: Holyrood delivered a majority in favour, which is the only mandate it needs, being the relevant forum, (and in any case winning a majority of MPs isn't something Tories or Labour would call "losing" if it was them). So they have three mandates: the elections for Holyrood, the vote by MSPs, and the majority of Westminster seats in Scotland.

    The Greens are urging her to stick to the timetable.

    Let's see what she says this afternoon.
    weepiper likes this.
  23. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

  24. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    I think there's good things going on, but I don't want the SNP to become the default leadership again this time. We can do without having to defend stuff like Monetary Union again.
  25. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    i expect you mean it would be better if it was more grassroots?
    though i guess the SNP will have the most money and biggest platform - not sure there is any way that can be avoided
    danny la rouge likes this.
  26. Wilf

    Wilf Dances like a Christian

  27. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    Depends what you mean by "shelved".

    "there is no doubt that the Scottish Government has a mandate to offer the people of Scotland that choice within this term of parliament."

    EU Negotiations and Scotland's Future

    To me, that reads like what has been postponed is the legislation setting the date for the referendum. That does not necessarily mean the referendum has been postponed.
    Poi E likes this.
  28. Poi E

    Poi E Pessimism: a valuable protection against quackery.

    A means to appear conciliatory to both unionists and the SNP faithful, I suppose. Biding time whilst the fault lines in the union open wider elsewhere.

    Conflating support for independence with support for EU membership was always a risky gambit.
  29. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    I think it's a wise decision. The polling still has independence below 50%. The Yes movement needs to work on that, and to ease off the Brexit focus. And I think a post-Brexit date would be better for the Yes side anyway - people will be pissed off with the Tories by then.
    Poi E likes this.
  30. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    This is the thread you wanted to say this in.

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