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Indyref 2

Discussion in 'Scotland/Alba' started by weepiper, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge This is definitely the darkest timeline

    Like: "the Greens has nothing in their manifesto about a second referendum". A widely touted "fact".
     
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  2. equationgirl

    equationgirl I can bend, I can break, I can shift, I can shake

    No, I accept that it is one of their goals, not the only goal.

    I also accept that in Scotland they have steadily made things better for people living here including things like setting aside money to offset the bedroom tax implemented by Westminster.

    The SNP also doesn't make TV adverts belittling women, unlike the conservatives.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
    geminisnake likes this.
  3. Wilf

    Wilf 8% Beach Ready

    As Danny has just said, the snp don't have a policy of serial referenda. That's why the framing and timing of this one are so important. Unless there are further constitutional upheavals in the Uk, not impossible of course, this probably will be the last ref 'for a generation'.
     
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  4. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge This is definitely the darkest timeline

    And while I think of it, while Salmond did say in an interview that he thought the 2014 referendum was an opportunity which might only occur once in a generation, that was not a policy, it was an opinion, and it was never part of the Edinburgh Agreement, nor of any manifesto commitment, nor any other binding document. It was merely a remark.

    Furthermore, circumstances have changed, and he is no longer SNP leader. And so it turns out that there shall be another opportunity.
     
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  5. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    I think you are nitpicking, referendum is the current MO and the SNP were very disappointed they didn't win the last one but that does not stop them trying again and that is what they are up to now.
     
  6. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge This is definitely the darkest timeline

    And that's your analysis of Scottish current affairs is it? Cheers. We'll be in touch.
     
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  7. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    :)
    It is the crux yes. And if the referendum were to take place while London is fully engaged with Brexit that could weaken the no to independence hand which I expect is part of their calculation.
     
  8. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge This is definitely the darkest timeline

    Do you have a blog?
     
  9. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Do you?
     
  10. Sue

    Sue Well-Known Member

    Oh weltweit.
     
  11. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge This is definitely the darkest timeline

    I maybe phrased that wrong:

    Don't you have a blog or something?
     
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  12. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Whether I have a blog or not is tangential, at best, to the discussion.

    I don't live in Scotland but my mother was a Scot, she was pro Union as am I. Now I expect my not living there may cause you to discount my opinion, but that does not mean I am not free to make it.
     
  13. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge This is definitely the darkest timeline

    That's not why I'm discounting it.
     
  14. Sue

    Sue Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's because you don't live in Scotland that people discount your opinion but because you seem very ignorant of the political situation there.

    Ftr, I don't live in Scotland either.
     
  15. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge This is definitely the darkest timeline

    weltweit, do you post in the sports forums? I don't. I know nothing about sports. I can name less than ten footballers, most of them from the 70s when my Dad had the football on in the room. I don't know any current Scottish footballers at all.

    So imagine I turn up in the football forum talking about Chelsea United and saying my views are as valid as anyone's. That's you here.
     
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  16. EastEnder

    EastEnder Brixton Barnacle

    ^^^This strikes me the most salient point. I very much doubt the SNP really want a never ending cycle of referendums, and even if - somewhat bizarrely - they did, it would probably lead to their downfall. No political party that wants to be taken seriously can possibly keep on holding referendums, essentially asking the same question each time. They would become a laughing stock, the subject of international ridicule.
     
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  17. geminisnake

    geminisnake a complex mass of conflicting ideas

    I'm not a footie fan but I'm fairly sure it's not Chelsea United :D
     
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  18. EastEnder

    EastEnder Brixton Barnacle

    Chelsea Rangers? :D
     
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  19. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Sue, are you saying that a lack of local knowledge means one cannot have an opinion on Scottish independence? If you are then I don't agree.
     
  20. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    I take your point, and I know as little about football as I do about Scottish politics indeed, but surely independence is an order of magnitude wider than that. Scotland becoming independent would have implications for Irish, Welsh and English people also, not just for Scots.

     
  21. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge This is definitely the darkest timeline

    You had a specific opinion on SNP policy which was ill-informed and ignorant, and seemed to be based on something you might have heard on a radio phone in from someone who's never been to Scotland.
     
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  22. Sue

    Sue Well-Known Member

    Of course you can have an opinion. But if you know little about a subject, your opinion on it will likely not be taken seriously by those who do know about that subject.

    See danny la rouge's footballing analogy a few posts up.
     
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  23. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge This is definitely the darkest timeline

    Of course you can have an opinion about the breakup of the UK. Just try to be a bit more informed than saying the SNP will "keep having referendums until they win": they won't. It'd be damaging to them. They know that.
     
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  24. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    FTFY
     
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  25. EastEnder

    EastEnder Brixton Barnacle

    That's very true, and I would also add that this would seem to be a pivotal moment for the SNP. They need to clearly demonstrate that they're more than a single issue party. The people of Scotland need to have the confidence that they are capable of competently running a fully independent Scotland, and that they can continue to fight for the best interests of Scotland if it remains a part of the union.
     
  26. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge This is definitely the darkest timeline

    Professor Richard Murphy: Why you can't rely on GERS figures to judge Scotland's financial state

    "The message then is a simple one: when people say Scotland is in financial trouble, or running a deficit, or anything else, ask them how they know. If they say it’s the GERS (Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland) report, tell them to read the home page for that report where it is quite candid about the fact that the data in it is estimated. If they retort that all financial data includes some estimates, feel free to agree, and then point out that does not usually mean that 25 of the 26 income figures in a set of accounts are estimates extrapolated from data for the UK as a whole and some consumer surveys. And yet that is the case for GERS. Estimates may be a part of financial life but this is ridiculous: what this really says, yet again, is that there is no financial data for Scotland."
     
  27. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    I'd say that their political success shows that a great deal of Scottish people consider them more than a single issue party and have for some time. They've attracted votes from both supporters of independence and those opposed to it.
     
  28. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Well-Known Member

    Here you go :) Make a cup of tea before you start reading it.

    Our record
     
  29. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge This is definitely the darkest timeline

    Indeed: some of their safest seats were No majorities.
     
  30. geminisnake

    geminisnake a complex mass of conflicting ideas

    I can't talk for the other No majorities but in Angus I think the Tories came out for the Indy ref but just don't vote Tory in the GEs because since Sandy Bushby the PPCs have not been worth voting for. Mike Weir is quite good AND quite popular. There are(imo) a lot of small c conservatives throughout Scotland who don't vote because they don't like shouty aggressive twats.
     

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