India's "People's Car" - great for Joe Public, disaster for the environment
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Ditto n China - then again, they are following "our" model of developemnt & our aspirations - the fact that we have decided that cars are bad after a century of wanking off over them is a secndary issue innit ?
isnt it a bit colonial & lectury to now decide their "achievements" are in fact now consdered bogus ?
( just for arguments sake of course - not being purposefully obtuse or whatever )
isnt it a bit colonial & lectury to now decide their "achievements" are in fact now consdered bogus ?
( just for arguments sake of course - not being purposefully obtuse or whatever )
editor
hiraethified
Hey, I don't blame Indians for wanting cars - why shouldn't they have what the West has got, after all -but it's a shame that a more environmentally friendly and sustainable solution couldn't have been provided.
The congestion on India's roads is going to be truly awesome once they start to gain popularity - and then it'll be more roads, and more roads and more cars and more roads.....
The congestion on India's roads is going to be truly awesome once they start to gain popularity - and then it'll be more roads, and more roads and more cars and more roads.....
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It does 50 miles to the gallon. Anybody who drives anything that does less than that is causing more damage. Don't blame Indians just because the UK and others industrialised first.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I hope it crash tests better than China's Chery:
Thats only a 40 mph crash.
Thats only a 40 mph crash.
david dissadent
New Member
With oil at $100 a barrel, US unemployment rising, the huge stresses in the financial sector in the US and the rest of the world (30% of US economic activity), I am of the pretty firm belief that US oil consumption is headed for a pretty big drop over the next couple of years. Given that China has been keeping its price of refined oil produce artificially low as well, a car like this is probibly only going to cut into the slack from demand destruction for oil in the industrialised world.
david dissadent
New Member
Yuwipi Woman said:
They have started producing the old Rover 75s in China now and I assume will shortly be knocking out old Rover 25s in a year or two.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Sooner or later we in the rich world will have to face up to the fact that we have no more moral right to use resources and pollute than India and China. This is the real problem.
It is an unedifying sight to see consumption-addicts in the west worrying about the environmental impact of grinding poverty being alleviated in the industrialising east.
It is an unedifying sight to see consumption-addicts in the west worrying about the environmental impact of grinding poverty being alleviated in the industrialising east.
Sadly, India is one of thoses rare places that has a proper, working, efficient and reliable rail network which carries Billions of passengers a year in relative safety
the rail system is so important that there are 2 budget readings in the Indian Parliment each year, one for the railways, one for everything else like tax and shit
Its difficult to say " you cant have that cos its bad" when the biggest influemces on the massive young Indina generation are probabaly Britney & baywatch or whatever - force feed them consumer aquisitive shite on on hand, but on the other hand, we western liberals tut when they try to emulate what they see.
its ann odd one for sure
the rail system is so important that there are 2 budget readings in the Indian Parliment each year, one for the railways, one for everything else like tax and shit
Its difficult to say " you cant have that cos its bad" when the biggest influemces on the massive young Indina generation are probabaly Britney & baywatch or whatever - force feed them consumer aquisitive shite on on hand, but on the other hand, we western liberals tut when they try to emulate what they see.
its ann odd one for sure
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
david dissadent said:
They bought Jaguar too, didn't they?
david dissadent said:
aside=- I know some Chinese car production engineers form my time in DPRK- theyse European expats - they did mention that the Chinese made VW Passats now made in Shenzen or somewhere are soemthing like 20% klighter than their german originals, as the bosses told the enginners to cut down as far as possible to make the car cheaper to produce/ less steel
How did they do this ?
they chopped out all the metalwork that makes up the bulk of the safety crumple stuff - everything else was crtiical to the rigidity of the car itself
dont travel in a Chinese Jetta.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
zoltan69 said:aside=- I know some Chinese car production engineers form my time in DPRK- theyse European expats - they did mention that the Chinese made VW Passats now made in Shenzen or somewhere are soemthing like 20% klighter than their german originals, as the bosses told the enginners to cut down as far as possible to make the car cheaper to produce/ less steel
How did they do this ?
they chopped out all the metalwork that makes up the bulk of the safety crumple stuff - everything else was crtiical to the rigidity of the car itself
dont travel in a Chinese Jetta.
I'm told they're making knock off Jeep Cherokees that way too. Jeep Cherokees were crap when they were making them in the states with actual steel. I don't see how their version could be better.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
editor said:Stand back and watch India's emissions soar and their roads get even more congested!
have you been to india this mighten be possbile...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
India's emissions per capita have a hell of a long way to go before they reach the UK's. This little car will not even bring them close.editor said:
Yuwipi Woman said:
Theve go the entire old Cherokee production line in China- tbhey bought tit wholscale when Jeep retooled for different platforms a few years ago IIRC
same 1940's designed straight slab engine I think
no self respecdting beijjing busineeeman would have anything but a Cherokee nowadays if what I have seen on the roads is correct - its swarming with them
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
zoltan69 said:
Looking on the bright side, if the Chinese manufacturer took most of the metal framing out they probably solved the problem with the undercarriage rusting out after a couple of years.
In India they are producing a version of the old Austin Cambridge and have been doing so for years. Replacing that with the new 'People's Car' must be an improvement in environmental terms.
As for congestion, once the roads are full everything stops. This happens several times a year in my town and would be likely to happen permanently in London if not for some unpopular traffic control policies in place now. People mostly don't drive to work in London.
The car is at the very centre of the decision about individuals trying to solve their own problems or working with others in something that used to be called 'society' to provide mass transit systems. Sadly, only when the former meets its limitations do people look to the latter.
As for congestion, once the roads are full everything stops. This happens several times a year in my town and would be likely to happen permanently in London if not for some unpopular traffic control policies in place now. People mostly don't drive to work in London.
The car is at the very centre of the decision about individuals trying to solve their own problems or working with others in something that used to be called 'society' to provide mass transit systems. Sadly, only when the former meets its limitations do people look to the latter.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
not really they have been running on unturboed izuzu trooper engines since the early 90's ... these lumps are perfect for bio diesil....Hocus Eye. said:
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
They changed the Ambassador's engine in the mid-1990s, IIRC, from the old Austin B-series (I think) to an up-to-date Mazda diesel.Hocus Eye. said:
DarthSydodyas
rusting
Tata have bought Jag and Land Rover.Yuwipi Woman said:
editor
hiraethified
The per capita total might be low, but India is already one of the world's worst Greenhouse gas creators, with higher CO2 output than Australia and Japan and the only way is up.littlebabyjesus said:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/env_pol_car_dio_fro_fos_fue_200-carbon-dioxide-fossil-fuels-2000
http://www.carbonplanet.com/country_emissions
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
About the same emissions as Japan but ten times the population.
Three times the emissions of Australia but 50 times the population.
The rich need to look at themselves before they can say squat to the poor, in my opinion.
Three times the emissions of Australia but 50 times the population.
The rich need to look at themselves before they can say squat to the poor, in my opinion.
We'll be seeing more reports like this one then:-
Hopefully more peak oil price rises will put an end to this craziness...
Thank fuck Tata are moving towards the Air Car
Bangalore (or Bengaluru as it is now called) is already a gridlocked, choking nightmare. Moving around the city is a major ball-ache unless you travel at night.
Hopefully more peak oil price rises will put an end to this craziness...
Thank fuck Tata are moving towards the Air Car
Prince Rhyus
Spokesman of King Antonio
If the running costs for the motor continue to rise due to high oil prices, those cars will end up being white elephants.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
But will they have big ears, or small ears?
The Indy front page today made me spew with rage. How dare those liberal hand-wringers dictate what Indians can do, over their organic kedgeree and herbal tea! "Can The World Afford This Car?" What are they saying: "we've done the emissions thing, it's so over!"?
The affluent piss me off with their conversion to environmental issues. It's OK for them - they just pay the congestion tax, they'll just stump up the frequent flyer tax, they carry on doing what they've always done, but salve their consciences with carbon offset fancy accountancy tricks. It's the people who didn't ever fly frequently who'll be expected to abstain, the people who have never done the school run in 4x4s who'll be told not to ruin the planet, as always, when the party's over those who weren't invited will be footing the bill.
The Indy front page today made me spew with rage. How dare those liberal hand-wringers dictate what Indians can do, over their organic kedgeree and herbal tea! "Can The World Afford This Car?" What are they saying: "we've done the emissions thing, it's so over!"?
The affluent piss me off with their conversion to environmental issues. It's OK for them - they just pay the congestion tax, they'll just stump up the frequent flyer tax, they carry on doing what they've always done, but salve their consciences with carbon offset fancy accountancy tricks. It's the people who didn't ever fly frequently who'll be expected to abstain, the people who have never done the school run in 4x4s who'll be told not to ruin the planet, as always, when the party's over those who weren't invited will be footing the bill.
And how much fuel is expended on running the compressors? It's not exactly efficient.Dr Jon said:We'll be seeing more reports like this one then:- Bangalore (or Bengaluru as it is now called) is already a gridlocked, choking nightmare. Moving around the city is a major ball-ache unless you travel at night.
Hopefully more peak oil price rises will put an end to this craziness...
Thank fuck Tata are moving towards the Air Car
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