Indian Muslims

[Dandred]

Who, mears?

Seems like he's trying to use his ideas about "Indian Muslims" to create a phony dichotomy along the lines of "Indian Muslims reside within a democratic political culture, and as I have no information that Indian Muslims have been involved in Islamist terrorism I'm going to assume, [I}sans[/I] fact(s), that this is due to their residing within that democratic political culture. Furthermore, as a corollary to the first point, I'm going to assume that only Muslims residing in non-democratic political cultures are involved in Islamist terrorism".

In other words "Democracies produce contented Muslims, non-democracies produce discontented Muslims".

Which is, when all is said and done, inaccurate and dangerously simplistic twaddle.

Yep, it is all inaccurate and dangerously simplistic twaddle, strange he didn't give any examples of USA muslims!!!!!!!!!

 

[TeeJay]

In other words "Democracies produce contented Muslims, non-democracies produce discontented Muslims".

Well there is a grain of truth in the idea that countries that generate less grievances and/or have more legal channels for people to express their political beliefs and participate in a non-violent way towards influencing society may well see less people supporting and getting involved with terrorist groups.

However there are violent Islamist extremists in a whole range of countries, both democratic and otherwise, and he is just being a toal fuckwit by making moronic comments about there not being any Indian Islamists.

Sadly there is a decent debate to be had about what it is that drives Islamism in some places (eg Saudi, Afghanistan, Pakistan) whereas others (eg Turkey, Malaysia) have far less of a problem with it (although both of these they still do have terrorists). There is an interesting debate about how far these groups arise out of local conflicts - for example the civil war in Algeria was very bloody for 10 years but has now largely subsided - as opposed to neo-con "war on terror", al-qaeda "jihad" advocates and "clash of civilisation" thinkers would like to argue. This debate is not going to happen on this thread however, since mears kicked it off by being such a fucking moron that it renders the whole thing pointless.

 

[mears]

Do American Jews have more freedom than Israeli Jews?

Maybe you shouls ask a jew, maybe even a jew who has lived in both Israel and the US.

Can't help you on that one sport.

 

[mears]

Did you get the idea of this thread from bullshit rightwing fucked radio show?

That's how it comes across, I was just wondering about your new found intrest in Indian muslims. I've never seen you mention them before this thread.

Its good to open your eyes to different people and cultures throughout the world. Unemployed in some coffe shop memorizing a rag like the Guardian is just as bad as some American working stiff coming home to absorb Fox News.

You both are equally ignorant.

 

[mears]

Uh-huh.

It's not much of a "new found interest" though, is it? After all, if he were interested in the people rather than in trying to score political points with his woefully mis-informed representation of "Indian Muslims", he'd have researched his position before posting about it, and noticed just how shoddy it was.

Not thats priceless. You tell me where to go ang get informed.

Exactly, you have no clue.

 

[mears]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5169332.stm

This was posted on this thread. And what does this say about Indian Muslims?absolutely nothing. What does this article say about Indian Muslims engaging in terrorism? Complete bollocks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1708853.stm
Another article, and again nothing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4337412.stm
Again, this in no way implicated Indian Muslims.

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/count...sheets/Suicide_attacks_Jammu_Kashmir_2005.htm

Now is this group affiliated with Pakistan and not India?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashkar-e-Toiba
what does this have to do with Indian Muslims.

copliker you are the dumbest of the dumb around here, and that is saying quite a lot.

 

[rekil]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5169332.stm

This was posted on this thread. And what does this say about Indian Muslims?absolutely nothing. What does this article say about Indian Muslims engaging in terrorism? Complete bollocks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1708853.stm
Another article, and again nothing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4337412.stm
Again, this in no way implicated Indian Muslims.

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/count...sheets/Suicide_attacks_Jammu_Kashmir_2005.htm

Now is this group affiliated with Pakistan and not India?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashkar-e-Toiba
what does this have to do with Indian Muslims.

copliker you are the dumbest of the dumb around here, and that is saying quite a lot.

Well done mears. That's progress of a sort.

 

[TeeJay]

The "Kashmiri separatist militias" are indian muslims mears, to a varying extent. These groups include people from pakistan and other areas (just like al qaeda affiliated groups have) but they definitely include people from kashmir, which you don't seem to realise is currently part of india, and most of whose residents are indian citizens. Part of kashmir is administered by pakistan and the dispute is exactly over the statujs of the people living in kashmir, so someone calling themselves 'pakistani' or 'indian' is a loaded thing - hence the common use of 'kashmiri' (which is more neutral between the two claims). However someone describes themselves however there is the simple administrative fact that many people in kashmir are de facto indian citizens, and this includes a fair number of separatist militias who have been involved with the attacks you have linked to above.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not thats priceless. You tell me where to go ang get informed.

Exactly, you have no clue.

Actually I mentioned a couple of decent (and academically respected) sources earlier in the thread, which is a lot more tha you've done, I do believe.

There's only one of us on this thread who doesn't have a clue, and it ain't me.

Oh, and asking a question of someone and then answering it yourself is the sign of an imbecile, but I guess we already knew that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The "Kashmiri separatist militias" are indian muslims mears, to a varying extent. These groups include people from pakistan and other areas (just like al qaeda affiliated groups have) but they definitely include people from kashmir, which you don't seem to realise is currently part of india, and most of whose residents are indian citizens. Part of kashmir is administered by pakistan and the dispute is exactly over the statujs of the people living in kashmir, so someone calling themselves 'pakistani' or 'indian' is a loaded thing - hence the common use of 'kashmiri' (which is more neutral between the two claims). However someone describes themselves however there is the simple administrative fact that many people in kashmir are de facto indian citizens, and this includes a fair number of separatist militias who have been involved with the attacks you have linked to above.

Thanks for pointing that out to him. I'm wondering if he also knows that the majority of Kashmiris (some 70%) are Muslims, or whether he assumes that as Muslims form a minority totalling about 17% of the Indian population (at their 2001 census), that Kashmir's population is mainly Hindu?

All the contributors to this thread except for mears appear to know this stuff as a matter of course, so it can't be that this sort of info is hard to find.

 

[mears]

Now that we can find very little documentation of Isalmic radicalism among the 150 million Indian Muslims its time to ask what other Muslim countries can learn from this example.

Womens rights, the ability to petition government, Muslims attaining high stature in India through business - I believe all this contributes to their positive record. I am no expert on the Hindu religion but as I said before it seems like a very moderat and open form of worship and maybe this contributes as well.

I look forward to everyones input.

 

[exosculate]

Now that we can find very little documentation of Isalmic radicalism among the 150 million Indian Muslims its time to ask what other Muslim countries can learn from this example.

Womens rights, the ability to petition government, Muslims attaining high stature in India through business - I believe all this contributes to their positive record. I am no expert on the Hindu religion but as I said before it seems like a very moderat and open form of worship and maybe this contributes as well.

I look forward to everyones input.

You seem capable of commenting without knowledge on Muslims but not Jews, its a peculiar world that your brain must inhabit.

 

[mears]

You seem capable of commenting without knowledge on Muslims but not Jews, its a peculiar world that your brain must inhabit.

Well than educate me, show a little heart. You tell me about Muslims in India and how they might be or may not be engaged in terrorism.

Hell, thell me anything about Muslims you know. I am all ears.

 

[snadge]

mears

 

[exosculate]

Well than educate me, show a little heart. You tell me about Muslims in India and how they might be or may not be engaged in terrorism.

Hell, thell me anything about Muslims you know. I am all ears.

Listen carefully then.

It is ridiculous to generalise about hundreds of millions of people.


That's the first bit of wisdom I shall impart. I fear I shall have to let you absorb that before we move on.

 

[mears]

Listen carefully then.

It is ridiculous to generalise about hundreds of millions of people.


That's the first bit of wisdom I shall impart. I fear I shall have to let you absorb that before we move on.

So you actually have nothing to say about Indian Muslims, other Muslims or Jews.

But I never thought you had anything to say in the first place.

Pretty sad

 

[snadge]

So you actually have nothing to say about Indian Muslims, other Muslims or Jews.

But I never thought you had anything to say in the first place.

Pretty sad

I thought that's you were banking on.

personally I think you have another agenda to this undefendable one on show.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I thought that's you were banking on.

personally I think you have another agenda to this undefendable one on show.

Don't you just love the way that he blithely ignores anything he disagrees with?

Almost dwyerite in his delusions, isn't he?

 

[mears]

Don't you just love the way that he blithely ignores anything he disagrees with?

Almost dwyerite in his delusions, isn't he?

What am I ignoring?

 

[exosculate]

So you actually have nothing to say about Indian Muslims, other Muslims or Jews.

But I never thought you had anything to say in the first place.

Pretty sad

This is precisely the point I am making about you. But that is obvious I think to most people who read it.

I have plenty to say when there is something of substance to engage with. That is not present here.

Sadly.

 

[exosculate]

Don't you just love the way that he blithely ignores anything he disagrees with?

Almost dwyerite in his delusions, isn't he?

His argument seems based on projecting his own failings of substance onto anybody around him. Its schoolboy stuff to be honest.

His school of thought

he's behind you, oh no he's not

Commonly known as crapology.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Give him a sporting chance, he's the only (more or less) functioning right-wing American we still have as far as I know. Dilute and JC seem to have given up on Bush, and pbman is probably being buggered in jail by Diesel.

 

[mears]

This is precisely the point I am making about you. But that is obvious I think to most people who read it.

I have plenty to say when there is something of substance to engage with. That is not present here.

Sadly.

Than why even respond, you don't know anything about the aforementioned subject as it is.

Just go away

 

[mears]

What is wrong with you people, where is substance here? Why is it all so personal with mears? Something about being a rich, white, American Republican I guess. Just can't quite get by that now can we.

Do you know that one of the largest computer software companies in India has as its chairmen a Shia Muslim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azim_Premji

Maybe that helps. Indian Muslims know that through education and hard work they can attain CEO status at a major Indian corporation.

What about an Arab Muslim in Saudi Arabia who is not fortunate enough to be in the Saudi royal family? Can he expect the same outcome through his education and determination? No way boys and girls.

Or a Muslim in Egypt, like Muhammad Atta. What do you do with an engineering degree in a country that produces hardly any goods or services to sell?

I guess you move to Germany and become a terrorist.

I think India has something to teach Muslim countries, especially those in the Middle East.

 

[exosculate]

Than why even respond, you don't know anything about the aforementioned subject as it is.

Just go away

Because as Bernie quite rightly pointed out, as intellectually inadequate as you are, you're all we've got.

 

[rekil]

Well than educate me, show a little heart. You tell me about Muslims in India and how they might be or may not be engaged in terrorism.

More spoonfeeding for the babyman.

Gujarat riot victims look to the Lashkar-e-Taiba.

Mears, do you understand anything at all about India's (recent) history? Partition? The subsequent bloodbath? The murder of Gandhi (by a Hindu)? The anti-sikh riots in the 80's? The 2002 Gujarat pogrom? It doesn't fucking look like it.

 

[Mallard]

It's difficult to get a drink in parts of Delhi outside the Sikh owned restaurants.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What is wrong with you people, where is substance here? Why is it all so personal with mears? Something about being a rich, white, American Republican I guess. Just can't quite get by that now can we.

Do you know that one of the largest computer software companies in India has as its chairmen a Shia Muslim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azim_Premji

Maybe that helps. Indian Muslims know that through education and hard work they can attain CEO status at a major Indian corporation.

What about an Arab Muslim in Saudi Arabia who is not fortunate enough to be in the Saudi royal family? Can he expect the same outcome through his education and determination? No way boys and girls.

Or a Muslim in Egypt, like Muhammad Atta. What do you do with an engineering degree in a country that produces hardly any goods or services to sell?

I guess you move to Germany and become a terrorist.

I think India has something to teach Muslim countries, especially those in the Middle East.

Then argue your case with fact, not with waffling references to your beliefs.

 

[rekil]

Do you know that one of the largest computer software companies in India has as its chairmen a Shia Muslim.

Ever heard of Dawood Ibrahim?

 

[Dandred]

Its good to open your eyes to different people and cultures throughout the world. Unemployed in some coffe shop memorizing a rag like the Guardian is just as bad as some American working stiff coming home to absorb Fox News.

So you did get your badly though out thread from some right wing nutty radio show then.

P.S.
I'm not unemployed, I don't read British newspapers, and I don't drink coffee in coffee shops.

How about you? Are you married to your sister? Do you sleep with your mother? Do you watch Fox news?