Indian Muslims

[rekil]

As long as no real people (ie, white westerners) are being killed or having their heads, noses and ears chopped off then it's not really terrorism. I think that's where mears is coming from but it's hard to say.

Teejay and I posted the same sort of response almost simultaneously. Smashing.

 

[Fez909]

"no Indian Muslims have been linked to Al Queda" - WRONG

"performed suicide bombings against Americans or Shia Muslims in Iraq" - you have provided no evidence and can't know this for a fact.

"or killed Jews in Israel" - again, you have provided no evidence and can't know this for a fact.

You also haven't shown that killing an american, an iraqi shia or a israeli jew is the be-all-and-end-all of being an islamist terrorist. After all many of them simply killed British people In London, French people in Paris, Spanish people in Madrid, Algerians, Egyptians, Indonesians - or guess what, they killed Indian people in India.

In short, go and fuck yourself you stupid, fuckwitted, pig-ignorant, moronic, know-nothing shit-for-brains and cease troubling this forum with your dribblings. You are barely worth telling to fuck off, and I am only bothering to talk to you because it is xmas and the season of good will, but in truth you hardly even deserve this much.

While I agree with the meat of the post quoted here, to bring some fairness into it, mears is being asked to prove a negative, which is impossible. To refute this only takes one example from each point he makes, but I somehow think that won't be enough for him. He'll claim "only one?" and then "only 2, out of 150 million?"

It's a rubbish thread.

 

[rekil]

While I agree with the meat of the post quoted here, to bring some fairness into it, mears is being asked to prove a negative, which is impossible.

Mears is being asked to read the (fucking) thread or click on links provided or type kashmir into google, all of which are apparently impossible for him to do.

 

[mears]

Maybe Indian Muslims are not blowing up planes because the live in a democracy where women can drive cars and vote. Maybe they are not training their youths to blow themselves up because Muslims are involved in politics. Since Muslims in India can start an independent newspaper or political party they can channel their anger in a more peaceful manner. Can most Muslims around the Arab world start an independent newspaper or political party? Hardly.

You people ask me for proof that Indian Muslims are not in Iraq. I can find no evidence. I can find no evidence of Indian Muslims in Afghanistan or Indian Muslims that engage in suicide bombing. I can find no evidence of Indian Muslim suspected or engaged in terrorist activities in Europe.

This coming from a country with 150 million Muslims. I think with all its problems India still deserves credut for this.

What do you all think?

 

[Belushi]

What do you all think

I think you should address the questions people have posed to you about Kashmiri terrorism, and events like the train bombings in Mumbai.

 

[Belushi]

Maybe Indian Muslims are not blowing up planes because the live in a democracy where women can drive cars and vote. Maybe they are not training their youths to blow themselves up because Muslims are involved in politics. Since Muslims in India can start an independent newspaper or political party they can channel their anger in a more peaceful manner.

But thats all true about Muslims in the UK, that didnt stop four of them blowing themselves up on tube trains.

 

[rekil]

You people ask me for proof that Indian Muslims are not in Iraq. I can find no evidence. I can find no evidence of Indian Muslims in Afghanistan or Indian Muslims that engage in suicide bombing. I can find no evidence of Indian Muslim suspected or engaged in terrorist activities in Europe.

This coming from a country with 150 million Muslims. I think with all its problems India still deserves credut for this.

What do you all think?

I think either you're a moron or you're trolling. Either way, get off the internet.

Suicide attack on India's parliament.
Female suicide bomber in Kashmir.
Suicide attacks in Jammu and Kashmir, 2005

 

[Kid_Eternity]

What do you all think?

That the US gov is a bigger terrorist organisation than AQ could ever hope to be?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Maybe Indian Muslims are not blowing up planes because the live in a democracy where women can drive cars and vote. Maybe they are not training their youths to blow themselves up because Muslims are involved in politics. Since Muslims in India can start an independent newspaper or political party they can channel their anger in a more peaceful manner. Can most Muslims around the Arab world start an independent newspaper or political party? Hardly.

You people ask me for proof that Indian Muslims are not in Iraq. I can find no evidence. I can find no evidence of Indian Muslims in Afghanistan or Indian Muslims that engage in suicide bombing. I can find no evidence of Indian Muslim suspected or engaged in terrorist activities in Europe.

This coming from a country with 150 million Muslims. I think with all its problems India still deserves credut for this.

What do you all think?

Guess what, my little brain surgeon? It's remarkably easy for an Indian Muslim to (officially or unofficially) get Pakistani nationality, or to pretend to be a Bangladeshi.

The fact is that unless the person carrying out the terrorist act has a previous criminal record (unlikely, as most terrorist organisations like recruits with clean jackets) then the intelligence services are unlikely to have a clue as to the nationality of the individual(s) unless they're WAYYY up the heirarchy.

Do yourself a favour: Come back whaen you actually know what you're talking about, rather than presenting people with some ramshackle "democracy = no terrorism" thesis.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Meltdown

No, iirritation at your stupidity, dumbfuck.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think you should address the questions people have posed to you about Kashmiri terrorism, and events like the train bombings in Mumbai.

C'mon man, you know he's about as likely to do that as the pope is likely to set aside his vow of celibacy!

 

[ViolentPanda]

But thats all true about Muslims in the UK, that didnt stop four of them blowing themselves up on tube trains.

Now now, we must all stop mentioning these inconvenient obstacles to the "truth" of mears's "thesis".

 

[TeeJay]

What do you all think?

I thin you are a moronic cunt who should fuck off, as you are obviously unwilling to check any facts or evidence presented to you or listen to a single fucking thing anyone tells you, let alone engage in meaningful debate about it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I thin you are a moronic cunt who should fuck off, as you are obviously unwilling to check any facts or evidence presented to you or listen to a single fucking thing anyone tells you, let alone engage in meaningful debate about it.

Same as ever for mears, then.

 

[mears]

But thats all true about Muslims in the UK, that didnt stop four of them blowing themselves up on tube trains.

Pakistani Muslims are engaged in terrorism in the UK. As you mentioned, they blew themselves up on the train to kill folks heading to work. They have also been implicated in other terrorist attempts.

 

[Crispy]

Those guys were British. 2nd generation immigrants, with British passports, National Insurance numbers, favorite football teams and english accents.

 

[mears]

OK, in a regional conflict Indian Muslims have been implicated in some crimes, one or two. But this is over disputed territory and not an ideological battle against the world like radical Islamists.

But does that mean there is a problem of terrorism among Indian Muslism? It does not look like it now does it? But if you think there is just say yes.

You people just want to play "gotcha". Its too much to look at the issues as a whole. You can't even give credit to Indian Muslims or to India's democracy.

I don't know why you all are so pissed off at everything.

 

[Crispy]

I don't know why you all are so pissed off at everything.

Because most things really are that crap?

 

[exosculate]

Seven million Jewish people in America and not one of them has killed a Palestinian child, I think they're alright. Why cant they all be like that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

OK, in a regional conflict Indian Muslims have been implicated in some crimes, one or two. But this is over disputed territory and not an ideological battle against the world like radical Islamists.

One or two?
You're still wearing the blinkers, then.

But does that mean there is a problem of terrorism among Indian Muslism? It does not look like it now does it? But if you think there is just say yes.

There's a problem with terrorism among Indian Muslims, one that extends beyond the Indian subcontinent, and has done since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan (as you'd know if you could actually be bothered to research any deeper than google and the news services). Do you really believe that India, uniquely among nations with Muslims making up part of the population, hasn't produced any "Islamist terrorists"? I suspect you do.

You people just want to play "gotcha". Its too much to look at the issues as a whole.

Except of course that every person on this thread except you has shown a reasonable and balanced knowledge of Indian politics and history than you, you pompous would-be-lecturing know-nothing.
Tell me, can you, without googling, explain how the Indian local regional and national political institutions work?
Can you explain the degree of exclusion from the political process that takes place in India's democracy?
etc etc etc.

You can't even give credit to Indian Muslims or to India's democracy.

Wrong.
Still, you have to say that, because you'll never admit that your second-hand shoddy thesis is riddled with more holes than a Swiss cheese.

I don't know why you all are so pissed off at everything.

Not at everything, just at ignorant know-nothing blowhards who sound off about things they're ignorant of.

Are you auditioning for Bill O'Reilly's job?

 

[zoltan]

I love you mears. Everything is so straightforward with you.

 

[mears]

So Violent Panda believes there is a problem with Islamic terrorism among Indian Muslims but does anyone else around here?

I say no. I believe its because of the freedom afforded these people in India, freedoms Muslims in the Middle East don't possess.

What do you all think? Do Indian Muslims have more freedoms than the average Muslim in the Middle East? Am I wrong to hold them up as a model.

Or can we not go beyond personal insults?

 

[exosculate]

S

What do you all think? Do Indian Muslims have more freedoms than the average Muslim in the Middle East? Am I wrong to hold them up as a model.

Do American Jews have more freedom than Israeli Jews?

 

[Dandred]

Did you get the idea of this thread from bullshit rightwing fucked radio show?

That's how it comes across, I was just wondering about your new found intrest in Indian muslims. I've never seen you mention them before this thread.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So Violent Panda believes there is a problem with Islamic terrorism among Indian Muslims but does anyone else around here?

I say no. I believe its because of the freedom afforded these people in India, freedoms Muslims in the Middle East don't possess.

What do you all think? Do Indian Muslims have more freedoms than the average Muslim in the Middle East? Am I wrong to hold them up as a model.

Or can we not go beyond personal insults?

Muslims in Pakistan have more freedoms than Muslims in the middle east and yet don't inhabit a democracy.

Muslims in some of the central Asian republics have more freedoms than those in the middle east and yet live in secular dictatorships that don't even qualify as "pseudo-democracies".

Muslims in the former Yugoslavia, in Chechnya and the Caucasus, and even in China have more freedoms than those in the middle east.

And of course Indian Muslims have more freedoms than those in the middle east.

What all those nation-states where Muslims have greater personal freedoms than their co-religionists in the middle east have in common with those co-religionists is that all have Islamist factions that have provided personnel and materiel to further Islamist ends. In some cases this has been state-sanctioned, in others it has not.

Now, care to provide any evidence whatsoever that supports your thesis on Indian Muslims?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Did you get the idea of this thread from bullshit rightwing fucked radio show?

That's how it comes across, I was just wondering about your new found intrest in Indian muslims. I've never seen you mention them before this thread.

Uh-huh.

It's not much of a "new found interest" though, is it? After all, if he were interested in the people rather than in trying to score political points with his woefully mis-informed representation of "Indian Muslims", he'd have researched his position before posting about it, and noticed just how shoddy it was.

 

[exosculate]

Uh-huh.

It's not much of a "new found interest" though, is it? After all, if he were interested in the people rather than in trying to score political points with his woefully mis-informed representation of "Indian Muslims", he'd have researched his position before posting about it, and noticed just how shoddy it was.

There are very few decent right wing debaters on here these days.

Shame I think.

 

[Dandred]

Uh-huh.

It's not much of a "new found interest" though, is it? After all, if he were interested in the people rather than in trying to score political points with his woefully mis-informed representation of "Indian Muslims", he'd have researched his position before posting about it, and noticed just how shoddy it was.

Fist time I've seen it mention only Indian muslims before.

 

[ViolentPanda]

There are very few decent right wing debaters on here these days.

Shame I think.

I agree.

I'll give Canuck credit where credit is due, he doesn't always go off half-cocked, and doesn't tend to make the broad assumptions that mears so often does.

Apart from that most of the right-wingers seem to be of the "if I ignore facts for long enough the inconvenient critters will disappear" variety. That or (even worse) they think that churning out pat phrases and "talking points" they've been fed by the rightwing media constitutes debate.

Fuck, it's not as if it's exactly difficult to do a little basic research to check whether your position is tenable, is it? Why do so many rightwingers think they can bluster their way through a debate?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Fist time I've seen it mention only Indian muslims before.

Who, mears?

Seems like he's trying to use his ideas about "Indian Muslims" to create a phony dichotomy along the lines of "Indian Muslims reside within a democratic political culture, and as I have no information that Indian Muslims have been involved in Islamist terrorism I'm going to assume, [I}sans[/I] fact(s), that this is due to their residing within that democratic political culture. Furthermore, as a corollary to the first point, I'm going to assume that only Muslims residing in non-democratic political cultures are involved in Islamist terrorism".

In other words "Democracies produce contented Muslims, non-democracies produce discontented Muslims".

Which is, when all is said and done, inaccurate and dangerously simplistic twaddle.