Inability to drive geared cars

[zenie]

Can only echo what others have said about bad instructors as well.

I took ages to get used to gears never thought I'd be able to do so many things at once but now it's like a second nature. If i can do it anyone bloody can!

How long ago did you have lessons Cloo? Only cars have changed so much I'd have another go in a more modern car if I were you.

Let's be honest it'd be annoying ONLY being able to drive an auto, what if you had to drive someone elses car or something like that? That's the kinda thing I think of anyway...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

to be fair it's geared cars which helped me compensate for my utter lack of corodination from my dyspraxia (which utterly buggers your ability to be coordingate otherwise...)

 

[Cloo]

Learning to drive at the mo, not really found it that hard with a bit of practice. What is it about it you find hard?

I found the clutch exhausting, partially, I think due to my weak left leg. We just couldn't make any progress because so much time was spent dealing with the clutch, basically.

I had a lovely, very patient teacher, so I don't think that was the problem.

Gsv is now talking about taking me out in his car to see if there’s any chance at all of me managing gears. Seeing as I’m nearly 35 weeks pregnant, we’ve still got loads to get ready for the baby and we’d need several sessions to be able to establish anything, I’d say unfortunately it’s a bit late for that!

Not to mention a) my hesitancy when it comes to driving and b) gsv’s temper with hesitant people on roads, I think it’s all a bit much.

The point is we want the new car before baby arrives (so we're not having the 3-door problem), and I can't see us establishing my ability to drive geared before then, because in a week or two it may simply not be possible for me to get behind the wheel! It's just a shame we didn't find out about the enivronmental issue three months ago. TBH, I'm shamefully unbothered about it, as it's not like we're tearing about long distance regularly or using it to go to the corner shop every 5 minutes (although a baby could change that, but I don't intend it to), so my inclination is to sod it and learn automatic.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I found the clutch exhausting, partially, I think due to my weak left leg. We just couldn't make any progress because so much time was spent dealing with the clutch, basically.

Ah right that makes perfect sense...

 

[Cloo]

Also, I'm completely malcoordinated.

gsv's said we could just struggle on with his car for another six months (I won't even be attempting to drive for at least the first three), which might be the best thing, as I can't see we can prove anything either way about my ability to drive geared on not in the time we have. I mean, it took about a dozen lessons last time before we gave up on the idea!

 

[ChrisFilter]

If you're not comfortable with a geared car, why force yourself when there's a perfectly good alternative? There's something of a snobbery about automatics in this country. They get you from A to B without a problem (and safely!), and that's the whole point.

 

[Biddlybee]

It wasn't snobbery, it was the environmental impact being worse than with geared cars (see the OP)... I never knew about that. Didn't know you could learn in automatics either.

 

[zenie]

You do get cars that have heavy clutches, it might be worth looking around to see what they're teaching you to drive in.

At the end of the day if you medically can't drive with a clutch then it's not really worth pursuing, if it's a case of getting your head round it I think it'll come in time.

 

[ChrisFilter]

It wasn't snobbery, it was the environmental impact being worse than with geared cars (see the OP)... I never knew about that. Didn't know you could learn in automatics either.

I wasn't saying that Cloo or gsv were being snobby.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I found the clutch exhausting, partially, I think due to my weak left leg. We just couldn't make any progress because so much time was spent dealing with the clutch, basically.

I had a lovely, very patient teacher, so I don't think that was the problem.

Gsv is now talking about taking me out in his car to see if there’s any chance at all of me managing gears. Seeing as I’m nearly 35 weeks pregnant, we’ve still got loads to get ready for the baby and we’d need several sessions to be able to establish anything, I’d say unfortunately it’s a bit late for that!

Not to mention a) my hesitancy when it comes to driving and b) gsv’s temper with hesitant people on roads, I think it’s all a bit much.

The point is we want the new car before baby arrives (so we're not having the 3-door problem), and I can't see us establishing my ability to drive geared before then, because in a week or two it may simply not be possible for me to get behind the wheel! It's just a shame we didn't find out about the enivronmental issue three months ago. TBH, I'm shamefully unbothered about it, as it's not like we're tearing about long distance regularly or using it to go to the corner shop every 5 minutes (although a baby could change that, but I don't intend it to), so my inclination is to sod it and learn automatic.

you might be able to get an adapted car with manual gears or if you go for summit like a citroen (can't remeber the model) they sometimes have a dashboard mounted gear stick as well which might help.

as for going out with gsv i'd advise against it, not cos it's him but because partners (like dad's and mums) tend to make awful instructors as there's an emotional involvement which isn't there. and no one needs extra stress in their releationships because you had the wheel snacthed out of your hand or you shouted at him because you didn't understand a confusing instruction or what ever...

It's nearly always a bad idea.

again there's nothing to stop you doing a manual test and then only ever drving auto's or semi autos.

I'd imagine the envriomental impact is greater as they are heavier and therefore add weight to the car decreasing it's power to weight ratio.

 

[Biddlybee]

I wasn't saying that Cloo or gsv were being snobby.

I know... but I didn't think was general snobbery about automatics (I just thought they were a bit more pricey )

 

[*Miss Daisy*]

No. Just can't be arsed with em. Autos rule

I loves my automatic, I took 20 lessons in a manual but i was very nervous and my instructor wasnt sympathetic, I then started automatic lessons and my fear was lifted! - i didnt have to worry about the gears the clutch and the bloody road!
It gave me leaway to get the feel of driving. I passed 1st time so Mr D decided to buy a manual audi A4mad: hard work) which has a heavy clutch so i tought myself how to drive that one, saved enough money and bought myself a nice automatic

Yeah, the auto I drove was like that. I was shocked and amazed.

It takes the hassle out - specially for my frequent drives to welsh wales through lots of lanes

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I wasn't saying that Cloo or gsv were being snobby.

i think your being silly there are a million and one reason why autos are worse than manuals besides the envriomental impact.

there's the sluggish gear change, the danger of putting a car into neutral and the time delay in the pick up to the power band again which can put you in danger. there's the cost of repairing it, or any working part in it. theirs the increase in weight and the decrease in power. there's the problem of being in essence disconnected from the vechile you are driving, isolation from your road enviroment is considered to be a major factor in road accidents. there's the wrong gear for the bend issues (again which have an enviromental impact) where it will often change down at the wrong time causeing balance under breaking issues or coast through at too high a gear causing excess fuel consumption. engine wear is greater due to high revs and higher idelling speeds meanign less fuel effiencet (and less enviromentally freindly). there's the fact that up until the 90's they were as reliable as a choclate teapot. there's the resale value drop off. and so on and so on... indeed i could proably crash the boards with a list of reasons why not too (same goes for diesel engines my list for that is so much longer...) it's nto snobbery it's knowing a bit or two about the vechiles and finding out that they are for most people woefully inadaquate.

the benifits are that on an average year the average driver in london must make around 10,000 if not more gear changes that's a lot of work, lot of left foot action, which can be removed instantly. there's the no need to specifically apply the hand break when stopped. and there's the ease of driving is reduced to steering mirror signal manouver rather than gear issues. less chance of stalling. seemingly smooth transition between gears up and down (due to massive tollerence created delays in gear to gear change up and down. however you can get significantly smoother changes with near no delay on a manual.)

however, there's a reason why with the exception of the USA manual cars are preffered the world over and that is simple engineering terms, it's just better.

 

[Cloo]

as for going out with gsv i'd advise against it, not cos it's him but because partners (like dad's and mums) tend to make awful instructors as there's an emotional involvement which isn't there.

TBH, I think it's a bad idea cos it is him! I'd do it with my dad, who, despite being a grumpy sod in many ways, is patient, but gsv knows he'd have to be on the (as he puts it) 'calm down dear' pills to cope with this sort of thing, plus he has a motive to really want me to be able to do it and I might not be able to, which puts pressure on both of us.

If we do do it, it's on the proviso that I'm outta there if he so much as raises his voice, as once that happens, you can forget about any progress being made.


The best compromise may be that we just struggle a bit for 6 months with his current car (which has just been MOT'd at least) and then I can have another go with less pressure on me and then find out whether we have to get an automatic or not.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

TBH, I think it's a bad idea cos it is him! I'd do it with my dad, who, despite being a grumpy sod in many ways, is patient, but gsv knows he'd have to be on the (as he puts it) 'calm down dear' pills to cope with this sort of thing, plus he has a motive to really want me to be able to do it and I might not be able to, which puts pressure on both of us.

If we do do it, it's on the proviso that I'm outta there if he so much as raises his voice, as once that happens, you can forget about any progress being made.


The best compromise may be that we just struggle a bit for 6 months with his current car (which has just been MOT'd at least) and then I can have another go with less pressure on me and then find out whether we have to get an automatic or not.

like i sadi sweetie if you want to bumblled up this way when i've got me new car (proably going to be summit simple and towny clio or maybe back to a morris minor) which will allow you to get your confidence up and so long as you resisted the urge to mow down the orthodoxies in the car park i doubt i'll get too frustrated about it... you'd be amazed what a patent teacher i am consdiering my general lack of patience...

 

[Poi E]

i

there's the sluggish gear change, the danger of putting a car into neutral and the time delay in the pick up to the power band again which can put you in danger.

Driven loads of (Jap) larger engined autos over the years and have not noticed a sluggish gear change. But the Japs really know how to mate an auto the right engine. The delay in pick up is not something I've experienced. An auto will mostly be quicker off the mark than many manuals, and kick down at speed was fearsome in some of the cars I've had. Reliability and environmental impact aside, I think most of your comments highlight poorly designed autos.

But yeah, when they break, they are a fucking nightmare. There is no such thing as a cheap fix on an auto.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Driven loads of (Jap) larger engined autos over the years and have not noticed a sluggish gear change. But the Japs really know how to mate an auto the right engine. The delay in pick up is not something I've experienced. An auto will mostly be quicker off the mark than many manuals, and kick down at speed was fearsome in some of the cars I've had. Reliability and environmental impact aside, I think most of your comments highlight poorly designed autos.

But yeah, when they break, they are a fucking nightmare. There is no such thing as a cheap fix on an auto.

erm i dunnot ferrari bentley mercedes alfa bmw aston ford mitsubishi toyota nissan not one of which have produced a production (not racing) auto which doesn't have considerable or noticeable lag dunno what you've driven which has been any good would love to give it a trashing.

for me the ultimate in gearing is still the preselector box which has in many ways been replaced by the triptronic type semi auto boxes. punch in the gear and at the correct revs the box slides perfectly into gear. which means that in most situations where the change up or down lag would occur you have already punched in the gear ahead of time.

 

[Poi E]

erm i dunnot ferrari bentley mercedes alfa bmw aston ford mitsubishi toyota nissan not one of which have produced a production (not racing) auto which doesn't have considerable or noticeable lag dunno what you've driven which has been any good would love to give it a trashing.
e.

It's your slow reactions, dude There's a reason why many pro drag racers use heavy duty autos. Cos they are quicker off the mark.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

It's your slow reactions, dude There's a reason why many pro drag racers use heavy duty autos. Cos they are quicker off the mark.

yes it's my slow reactions...

after all i have to react on an auto box to anything concering gear change....

drag cars boxes aren't standard car boxes which is why the caveate non racing was included ffs f1 gearboxes are autos... and nothing goes through the gears quicker than that except theoretical light gear boxes... but you don't go to sainsburys or take your kids to the zoo in a funny car or alcohol speedster do you...

perhaps you could come back when you know what you're talking about.

 

[Poi E]

yes it's my slow reactions...

after all i have to react on an auto box to anything concering gear change....

drag cars boxes aren't standard car boxes which is why the caveate non racing was included ffs f1 gearboxes are autos... and nothing goes through the gears quicker than that except theoretical light gear boxes... but you don't go to sainsburys or take your kids to the zoo in a funny car or alcohol speedster do you...

perhaps you could come back when you know what you're talking about.

Seen it in action in Banzai racers. Over the first 100 yards the auto will take the manual. Bloke in the manual will fuck the clutch dump and the auto will stream away...

Perhaps you can come back when you stop being so pompous. But it's hard for you, eh Garf?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Seen it in action in Banzai racers. Over the first 100 yards the auto will take the manual. Bloke in the manual will fuck the clutch dump and the auto will stream away...

Perhaps you can come back when you stop being so pompous. But it's hard for you, eh Garf?

ok it's really simple we aren't talking racers but road car's we've excluded racers from the discussion because a) the poster was asking about road going practical family cars and b) some of the arguments against auto boxes don't hold true in racing boxes just as is the same for any racing car vs a road car. which i have already said

so your example is still not vaild. to state that you are making an irrlevant post saying something which is confirmed by the previous post and claiming that this invaildates the arguement when you have said the same thing places you on the silly side of not reading.

I'm sorry that this is patronising but in future please read what's been said before piping up with the same point as a counter to the point being made as it makes you appear like an unreading fool.

ok

 

[Poi E]

Garf, I saw it all the time in vanilla cars in my stupid youth. The autos jump off quicker, cos they don't slip. It's pretty simple, and it's the reason why those who really need to get away quickly, like a drag car, have an auto. Racer or not, the principle remains the same. No clutch slip, less spin, quicker take off.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Garf, I saw it all the time in vanilla cars in my stupid youth. The autos jump off quicker, cos they don't slip. It's pretty simple, and it's the reason why those who really need to get away quickly, like a drag car, have an auto. Racer or not, the principle remains the same. No clutch slip, less spin, quicker take off.

this is utter nonsense the jump off will happen due to the driver, not the gear box. and from an engineering POV they do have a clutch, even if it's not a manually engauged one.

you are simply talking out of your hat.

the reason that a funny car or alcohol speedster has an auto box is that it needs it because all the power is pushed through the gears at a fraction of a second in change up incriments which a human beig could not achive. again this and a road goign car box are entirely different, most speedseter for example have a sequentail 3 gear box with no reverse. funny cars a 4 gear box and no reverse. sequentail boxes punch punch punch in top deploy cute end of story... not the same and still requires human intervention.

really you're not talking sense or fact, and your experincance of cars is i'm afraid subjective.

in order for auto boxes to engauge correctly they have to leave a signifnact gap to get that smooth no slippage motion in the acceleration or decelration.

 

[Poi E]

this is utter nonsense the jump off will happen due to the driver, not the gear box. and from an engineering POV they do have a clutch, even if it's not a manually engauged one.

you are simply talking out of your hat.

the reason that a funny car or alcohol speedster has an auto box is that it needs it because all the power is pushed through the gears at a fraction of a second in change up incriments which a human beig could not achive. again this and a road goign car box are entirely different, most speedseter for example have a sequentail 3 gear box with no reverse. funny cars a 4 gear box and no reverse. sequentail boxes punch punch punch in top deploy cute end of story... not the same and still requires human intervention.

really you're not talking sense or fact, and your experincance of cars is i'm afraid subjective.

in order for auto boxes to engauge correctly they have to leave a signifnact gap to get that smooth no slippage motion in the acceleration or decelration.

Lots of experience and tickets. And you're starting to talk gibberish...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Lots of experience and tickets. And you're starting to talk gibberish...

Most drag cars are shifted manually by the driver, and there are optimum times for shifting that vary with each car. Typically, power will increase as the engine RPMs (revolutions per minute) increase, but only up to a point before power begins to taper off. The ideal time to shift is when the descending power curve for the lower gear crosses the ascending power curve for the higher gear. Most drag racers use a tachometer to judge shift points. In Fuel classes especially, "pedalling" the car (adjusting the throttle) to prevent loss of traction is often important and one measure of how good a driver is.

via a squentail gear box...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_racing#The_race


again please stop talking out of your hat, about racing cars on a thread about family cars.

you're making yourself look silly...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...007_June_27#Acceleration:_Manual_vs_Automatic

 

[Sunray]

Do remember that you can get hydraulically assisted clutches which means they can be adjusted so they are feather light.

Not sure how common this is on smaller cars. Bigger engine cars its more common because the clutch is bigger and the pressure required to disengage it higher.

 

[pk]

Multitronic CVT is what you want Cloo... or techtronics.

Been reading up on this as I'm working at Thruxton all weekend - British Touring Cars innit...

 

[Petrolhead]

We’re going to have to get a new car, as a) gsv’s is a bit decrepit, b) it’s hell putting a baby seat in a 3-door and c) his is geared and my previous experience of lessons (never got round to taking a test) was that I found gears (in fact, the clutch) impossible but was fine on automatic – and I need to learn in the next year or so. Unfortunately, gsv’s discovered that automatics rate much worse environmentally than geared, for various reasons, and finds this rather depressing.

I know I’m not alone in my clutzy inability with gears – my brother couldn’t deal with them either and had to learn on automatic. Anyone else here incapable with gears?

Hey Cloo,

If you're not restricted by mobility issues etc from learning in a manual, then do give it a go. Once you get the hang of it, it's fun - however practice is the key.

Restricting yourself to automatic will be an expensive PITA should you ever need to hire a car - or buy one.

 

[berniedicters]

I fricking hate automatics. They never once (IMHO, obv) get the hill start/biting point right. Always ends up rolling then creeping.

Oh, I had the father-in-law's old 2.3 Granada auto off him, and that was pretty good. I got to quite enjoy zooming around in that tank.

Shame about the 17mpg, though. 30p/mile, that'd cost in fuel today!!

 

[pogofish]

I must say that every driver I've known to be unable to manage gears & took an auto test instead has ended-up being a complete & utter liability on the road.