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In special measures: Manchester United 16/17

Discussion in 'football' started by chilango, Jun 8, 2016.

  1. Eggby

    Eggby Well-Known Member

    A v.good away point that especially with a weakened squad and Fellaini getting himself sent off in ultra-daft manner
     
  2. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    Manyoo have admittedly been defensively impressive since Allardyce took the reins.

    Think it was him anyway. The football looks kind of familiar.
     
  3. Eggby

    Eggby Well-Known Member

    Glad you enjoyed it
     
  4. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    It was a brilliant...defensive performance. West Brom or Middlesbrough (no disrespect to either) would have been celebrating nearly as much as the Manyoos at the conclusion of such a sterling effort.
     
  5. Eggby

    Eggby Well-Known Member

    'Manyoo' weren't really troubled By Sterling's effort, miles over the bar
     
  6. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    That's another story...
     
  7. Joe Reilly

    Joe Reilly Well-Known Member

    Mentally very strong. Bailly immense - again. Herrera, Carrick, also impressive. The people who complain about Pogba's overall contribution can now draw a useful gauge in terms what Utd look like without him. Had to laugh at the panic in the City defence when swallowing the Martial/Rashford vapor trails early on. But they got confidence from a series of 'robust' challenges that warranted yellow, that Atkinson predictably ignored. City need to buy a whole new defence keepers included if they are ever to win anything again.
     
  8. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    Early on being the key words. United offered nothing for the rest of the game, which is curious when you consider the run-in they've got.

    Never thought I'd see the day (2011/12 excepted) when a vastly expensive Manyoo team comes to poor old City and emulates a Championship side in a third round FA Cup tie.
     
    imposs1904 likes this.
  9. Joe Reilly

    Joe Reilly Well-Known Member

    Utd are not the finished product. Going in the right direction nonetheless. The basis of a solid spine emerging in that process. De Gea, Bailly,(23) Pogba(24) Rashford (19) etc

    Can City say the same? £100 million for Sterling (cannot kick a ball) and Stones (cannot head a ball) suggests otherwise.

    (Also the team that saw out the game had nothing particularly expensive about it.)
     
    Badgers likes this.
  10. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    I think the vast majority of clubs would dispute that last point. And it isn't as if United haven't played all season in a similar style to last night even when at full strength. As implied above, it's a far cry from the swagger and flamboyance of the Busby and Ferguson eras. Dictated obviously by business interests (understandably): no time to entertain or be nostalgic when the bottom line is under threat.

    On the other hand, the whole narrative regarding City has centred on how Pep has been experimenting largely with what he inherited. Hence also not the finished product. We'll see. When does a team ever become the finished product anyway, when hardly any club stalls in buying and selling?
     
    imposs1904 likes this.
  11. Joe Reilly

    Joe Reilly Well-Known Member

    A rough back of the beer mat calculation shows that of the 10 players left on the field - 3 cost nothing - and all the others totaled, come to a ballpark figure of £150 mill. That's Stones, Sterling and De Bruyne. And only one of them is any good.

    Utd haven't played anything like that as a rule. On the contrary in almost every game it is Utd who have been on the front foot (ask, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea etc) while squandering chance after chance. Or to put it another way, there has been no loss of creativity at all, plenty of dash and swagger -up - to the penalty box, and then inexplicably wasteful in front of goal. And when not wasteful, more away keepers have won MOM performances at OT than anywhere else.

    Experimenting yes, but Pep's background team have being in situ at City for years. And who bought Bravo? Or why do the full backs all look about 40 years old? Even if Kompany stays fit (doubtful) he will need a partner, He will also need a keeper behind him and proper full backs on either side of him. In front of him Toure is about shot. And Pep dosen't fancy Aguerro. See what I mean about the importance of 'spine'?
    The truth by any objective standard City are clearly going backwards. And with the inevitable transfer churn there is no guarantee it will be remedied in the summer.
    City will have a huge investment to make in terms of defence. They also will have problems in cm. the question is after Bravo, Stones and Sterling is Pep the cure or the disease?
    For Utd its simpler. Out of three departments two are up to speed and are fully functioning. The other, the attack (with just Rashford trusted at centre forward) is where all the money will be invested. Unlike City it could hardly be more straightforward.
     
  12. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    A hundred and fifty million pound team still finished the game clinging on like, say, Huddersfield in the cup might have done, and the United fans celebrated in similar fashion at the end.

    And United gave one player away and then bought him back for close on a hundred million-and he's hardly proved anything like value for money so far... And nearly forty million for the unproven youth player Martial-rising to a possible 58 million-for a return of about fifteen goals in two seasons hardly seems like a shrewd piece of business.

    No City fan would fail to sympathise about wastefulness in front goal, last night being a case in point. The City team of five or even three years ago would have inflicted yet another derby day massacre, as would any team assembled with the weaknesses you highlight in mind. But even leaving aside Martial, two top class strikers, both paid pretty much world record wages, and, in Rashford, a potentially top-class striker, for a return of fifty league goals so far is poor no matter how many goalkeepers allegedly have blinders at your place. You'll have to hope that the problem is addressed properly, as without Ibraimovic you'd have been in trouble this season, and he was, like Pogba, a luxury buy designed, as with the appointment of Mourhino (whom the old guard at the club have apparently always loathed) with the club's fading profile and the bottom line in mind. Resting on your laurels will see you end up doing this. And despite what you say about always being on the front foot, from what I've seen, the football under Van Gaal and even Moyes was easier on the eye. Even the United fans seemed bored last night. The ones I could see seemed less interested in the game than in trying, and failing, to goad City fans into doing the airplane thing.

    I think few City fans wouldn't find transfer policy at the club over the last few seasons somewhat puzzling, nor deny the erosion of the spine of the team. The cynical stitch-up of FFP was clearly a factor, but a further explanation would seem to be that everything was put on hold for the arrival of Guardiola, complete with a caretaker manager for the medium term, but we'll never know for sure. Pep seems to have realised his mistake in Bravo (by no means a bad keeper in the past.) I'd rather have Pep try to address the issues than anybody else, however. If it works out it does, if not so be it. The ride will provide no lack of entertainment and interest...
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  13. Joe Reilly

    Joe Reilly Well-Known Member

    The sale of Pogba was indeed bonkers. And one of Fergie's biggest blunders. Selling Stam was another. And the buy back price was indeed excessive. However, he has still transformed mid-field in terms of domination from LVG and Moyes (the notion that these teams 'were easier on the eye' is simply nuts. I doubt you would find a single Utd fan anywhere who would agree with that. In mitigation, you did say 'from 'what I've seen'.) where Utd were routinely over run including at OT. Even with hitting timber more than anyone else his individual stats are still impressive. Expect more next season of course. But a considerable uptick for now. Martial has a long way to go for me yet to be considered an automatic starter. Knocks off. Isn't as technically gifted as Rasford say, but still in 50 appearances for Utd he has clocked 25 goals. So not too shabby. And he's 21.
    Mourinho has sorted out the defence and the midfield. He is also gradually returning the vital ingredient 'the winning mentality'. OK for now its looks more like a 'not losing mentality'. But that is the foundation of any top side. The refusal to capitulate. Regardless of the odds. It was the focus, grit, and stamina - the Fegie like defiance - when down to 10 men that had Utd fans celebrating at the end. Guardiola's problems look self inflicted to me. It's to do with his philosophy. if there's a flaw there then that's a problem money can never hope to solve.
     
  14. Dandred

    Dandred Mmmmm Beer!

    Most expensive team ever, another draw! :D
     
  15. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    Any they didn't deserve that. Cheating scum.
     
    Badgers likes this.
  16. chilango

    chilango By the many, not the few.

    The unbeaten run continues.
     
    Badgers likes this.
  17. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    thanks to a friendly ref!
     
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  18. Joe Reilly

    Joe Reilly Well-Known Member

    Turns out the ref wasn't in a position to see it. He went to the linesman who saw contact. Which was there was, However it was by Rashford on Fabianski not the other way round. Sane did exactly the same against Middlesbro. As did Kane, albeit, after illegitimate contact first.
    As I said after the Chelsea game. The officials or one reason or another can't cope.
     
    Badgers likes this.
  19. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    Why the fuck they don't get video into the game I don't know. It would have taken one look at tv to see that it wasn't a penalty. The repercussions are huge. The cost to swansea of that wrong decision are in excess of £100M, but think of the small companies that rely on Swansea being in the Prem for their trade. The guy who supplies the pies, prints the programmes etc. Something needs to be done to take these reffing errors out of the game.

    Hope Rashford gets a ban for the dive retrospectively.
     
    Badgers likes this.
  20. Wilf

    Wilf 8% Beach Ready

    Getting a tad nervous now.
     
  21. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    Good result at Celtic Vigo who have played some good football in the Europa but looked a little disjointed last night. Keeper made a mistake but also made some good saves. Looks like United will face Ajax in the final who have a very spirited but one of the youngest teams in top flight Europe.
     
  22. copliker

    copliker ...

    "...and on comes a bloke who's on loan from Fulham." Celta Vigo don't have a very deep bench. :(
     
    Wilf likes this.
  23. Wilf

    Wilf 8% Beach Ready

    Yes, I really hid behind the sofa when I heard that.
     
  24. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    On the other hand Ajax have a player on loan from Chelsea who has some promise.
     
  25. Wilf

    Wilf 8% Beach Ready

    Can't see Eric Bailly's red being overturned for the final. :( It looked like a faint touch on his ear, but just enough for a dismissal. Only thing would be if the ref said he somehow missed that Valencia had really shoved him over.

    Edit: it's a slightly odd movement where he seems to catch hold of his ear just before Valencia floors him. If you look at 0:38 here you can see one of the Celta players catches hold of Bailly's arm momentarily before contact is made, maybe guiding him into actual contact. There may be a ghost of a glimmer in there for united's lawyers to pick at
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  26. Eggby

    Eggby Well-Known Member

    Made hard work of it tonight...still, in the final now, hope United can be a bit more positive there as Mourinho's pragmatism can wear thin.
     
  27. Joe Reilly

    Joe Reilly Well-Known Member

    There seems to be a complete lack of curiousity with regard to what actually kick-started the melee?
     
  28. Favelado

    Favelado The Perfect Kiss

    Good luck United. From a Liverpool fan.
     
    Eggby, chilango and Wilf like this.
  29. Wilf

    Wilf 8% Beach Ready

    :)
     
  30. Wilf

    Wilf 8% Beach Ready

    S☼I, planetgeli and chilango like this.

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