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IMPORTANT! BT, Virgin Media & Carphone Warehouse to sell your browsing habits

Right. Just got off my lazy arse and mailed Virgin. Not very hopeful of a fast response (given past experience), but we'll see. Thanks for info on this thread, especially the anti-phorm plugin.
 
teqniq said:
Not very hopeful of a fast response (given past experience), but we'll see.
Click to expand...

TBH I'll be amazed if there's any response. Given all the bad publicity this has generated, I imagine both BT and Virgin are knee-deep in lawyers trying to figure out whether what they're planning is actually going to be illegal or not. Until then, expect a blackout on the subject - the last thing they want in a bevvy of written evidence all over the internet of "BT told me THIS in writing, look!".
 
It seems BT trailed phorm last summer:
BT has admitted that it secretly used customer data to test Phorm's advertising targeting technology last summer, and that it covered it up when customers and The Register raised questions over the suspicious redirects.

The national telecoms provider now faces legal action from customers who are angry their web traffic was compromised.

Stephen Mainwaring, a BT Business customer in Weston-super-Mare, believes sensitive banking data relating to his online horse racing business was press-ganged into a trial of an unproven technology. He suffered sleepless nights after detecting the dodgy DNS requests, and said today: "It is very likely that I and others will take legal action against BT for what they did last summer."
Click to expand...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/17/bt_phorm_lies/

Why doesn't this surprise me??? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
How does it go again, BT?

You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something which you later rely on in court.
 
I think you lot will be wasting your effort writing to your isp. Its good to let them know we are pissed off about it, but I get the impression that it would be easier to get blood from a stone than to get a reasonable reply. I think we should be complaining to the information commissioner who is doing jack shit as per usual:

http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints.aspx
 
WWWeed said:
II think we should be complaining to the information commissioner who is doing jack shit as per usual:

http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints.aspx
Click to expand...

Their page currently reads:
Server Error in '/' Application.
Runtime Error
Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine.

Details: To enable the details of this specific error message to be viewable on remote machines, please create a <customErrors> tag within a "web.config" configuration file located in the root directory of the current web application. This <customErrors> tag should then have its "mode" attribute set to "Off".

<!-- Web.Config Configuration File -->

<configuration>
<system.web>
<customErrors mode="Off"/>
</system.web>
</configuration>


Notes: The current error page you are seeing can be replaced by a custom error page by modifying the "defaultRedirect" attribute of the application's <customErrors> configuration tag to point to a custom error page URL.

<!-- Web.Config Configuration File -->

<configuration>
<system.web>
<customErrors mode="RemoteOnly" defaultRedirect="mycustompage.htm"/>
</system.web>
</configuration>
Click to expand...

which gives you confidence.
 
Just got the following response from BT

Dear Mr XXXXXXX,

Thank you for your email about the new Webwise service. I am sorry that you are not happy with this product, and for this delay in replying to you.

BT Webwise is a free service giving you a safer, more personalised online experience. BT Webwise checks for known fraudulent websites and warns you when you visit one, with no need to download or install any software. BT Webwise also replaces generic adverts you see on participating websites with adverts more relevant to your interests, based on the web sites you visit and the things for which you search.

BT has not and will not sell your data. No browsing data leaves BT network and no personally identifiable information is stored by the BT Webwise service or Phorm, the company that provides the technology behind the service. We do not tie our authentication servers and systems into Phorm?s systems and we do not send any other information we hold on our subscribers to Phorm.

The service works on the basis of a closed system which only includes the BT and Phorm. No browsing data leaves BT network and no personally identifiable information is stored by Phorm. No data on subscriber activity is passed to advertisers.

The BT Webwise service uses anonymised information on the URLs of some of the web pages viewed, keywords, and search terms entered. As the system works on unidentifiable data the service can't know who you are or where you've browsed. Plus users choose - they can switch the system off or on.

BT Webwise will be trialled in mid-March to about 10,000 customers who will be invited to participate into the service. Only if they choose to participate, will they receive the service. The trial will be used to assess the benefits to the customer and working of the Phorm system and any further information will be made available on www.bt.com/webwise. BT Webwise is completely free - and doesn?t require any downloads or software installation for it to work.

I trust this information is useful to you, however if there is anything else I can help you with, I will be pleased to help.

Thank you for contacting BT.

Yours sincerely,

Stephanie Guabello
eContact Customer Service
 
The Doctor said:
BT Webwise is a free service giving you a safer, more personalised online experience. BT Webwise checks for known fraudulent websites and warns you when you visit one, with no need to download or install any software.
Click to expand...

Other than a browser which already does phishing checking...? Which, last time I checked, was all of them. And why does phishing protection involve sending my browsing data to a third party advertiser that's had previous connections with spyware, exactly? Your approach is akin to those political bills which go something along the lines of "let's kill all hippes and give children lollipops", so that anyone against killing hippies has mud slung at them because they don't want to give children lollipops. I don't give a shit if you provide an anti-phishing service or not, but what you're really doing os disguising a scheme where you make a killing selling your customers browsing habits.

The Doctor said:
BT Webwise also replaces generic adverts you see on participating websites with adverts more relevant to your interests, based on the web sites you visit and the things for which you search.
Click to expand...

Whoop de fucking doo. Look at me, everyone! I'm being targettted. I've never felt so special.

The Doctor said:
BT has not and will not sell your data. No browsing data leaves BT network
Click to expand...

So how do you, er, give Phorm my browsing data?

The Doctor said:
and no personally identifiable information is stored by the BT Webwise service or Phorm
Click to expand...

Prove it. We've already pointed out how fucking impossible it is to accurately guess what is and what isn't "personal" data, and I've come to the reasonable conclusions that it's impossible. Perhaps you can convince me otherwise?

The Doctor said:
the company that provides the technology behind the service. We do not tie our authentication servers and systems into Phorm?s systems and we do not send any other information we hold on our subscribers to Phorm.
Click to expand...

I, and most other people concerned enough to deal with this disgusting breach of privacy for your own fucking monetary gain are doing so because they don't want ANY data going to Phorm, yet you're too greedy to offer them an option because you know no-one with an IQ above room temperature would agree to it.

The Doctor said:
The service works on the basis of a closed system which only includes the BT and Phorm. No browsing data leaves BT network
Click to expand...

Show me a sample of what you send them then. Better yet, publish the data from the "pilot" scheme you did, silently, last year so we can see how your anonymiser works. By the way, repeating "no browsing data leaves BT" over and over again does not make it true.

The Doctor said:
and no personally identifiable information is stored by Phorm.
Click to expand...

And you can prove this, presumably? Exactly what safeguards are in place to ensure that a) they never receive any personal data and b) they never store any of it? Particularly since they're registered in China?

The Doctor said:
No data on subscriber activity is passed to advertisers.
Click to expand...

Except for Phorm who are, er, advertisers. Unless browsing data doesn't count as subscriber activity?

The Doctor said:
The BT Webwise service uses anonymised information on the URLs of some of the web pages viewed, keywords, and search terms entered. As the system works on unidentifiable data the service can't know who you are or where you've browsed. Plus users choose - they can switch the system off or on.
Click to expand...

You keep stating these things as fait accompli - merely saying it's unidentifiable doesn't gain you in inch of trust in my book. Again, I'm as yet unaware of exactly how your filter strips out everything that could be construed as personally identifiable. I don't count a system based on cookies to be an effective opt-out system - there's lots of software that uses HTTP that doesn't support cookies, alot of people block third party cookies (ironically enough so that they're NOT tracked by malignant third party advertisers).

The Doctor said:
BT Webwise will be trialled in mid-March to about 10,000 customers who will be invited to participate into the service. Only if they choose to participate, will they receive the service. The trial will be used to assess the benefits to the customer and working of the Phorm system and any further information will be made available on www.bt.com/webwise. BT Webwise is completely free - and doesn't require any downloads or software installation for it to work.
Click to expand...

You know, I can't wait until you're struck down by privacy laws.
 
i take it then that you are not in favour of the scheme? :D


hopefully the bad publicity will prevent it happening.
 
Nice to see BT are not total pussies and have been courteous enough to send a reply, shame the same cant be said for virgin :(

gnoriac said:
Their page currently reads:


which gives you confidence.
Click to expand...

Working for me in both IE and firefox :confused:

and while I'm posting, here is some more leached news snippets from el reg:
The Foundation for Information Policy Research (FIPR), a leading government advisory group on internet issues, has written to the Information Commissioner arguing that Phorm's ad targeting system is illegal.

In an open letter posted to the think tank's website today, the group echoes concerns voiced by London School of Economics professor Peter Sommer that Phorm's planned partnerships with BT, Virgin Media and Carphone Warehouse are illegal und the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA).
Click to expand...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/17/phorm_fipr_illegal/

I wonder how they'll worm out of this..............
 
One thing I don't remembr seeing in this whole saga: has there ever been an independent audit of the source code involved?
Software provided by a company formerly touting alleged spyware and written by Russian programmers (not being rascist, it's just Russia's a rather lawless country when it comes to the internet).
Even if BT's satisfied no privacy problems have been identified in their testing there could still be a few back-doors in it.
 
Heh, I like that TrackMeNot plugin, it tells you in the corner what stuff it may allow tracking cookies to send back. Currently it's 'Nintendo speeds into spring with Mario'. :D
 
gnoriac said:
Even if BT's satisfied no privacy problems have been identified in their testing there could still be a few back-doors in it.
Click to expand...

I'm sure BT's word on the matter is good enough for everyone. We all know how honest they are, and the techies in this forum will vouch for their steadfast adherence to a strong investment in training their staff to understand the most complex technical issues.
 
Reply from Virgin, much sooner than I expected which leads me to surmise that they're getting a lot of similar mails:

Thank you for your e-mail dated 17 March 2008 regarding Virgin Media and
Phorm.

I understand your concerns and would like to thank you for your
feedback, however I must stress that although Virgin Media have signed a
provisional agreement with Phorm, we still have a lot of work to do in
evaluating various aspects of any possible deployment. As a result, it
may be some months before we are in a position to confirm how and when
the solution will be implemented.
We will of course be communicating our intentions openly and
transparently and will be letting all our customers know before rolling
out the Webwise solution and we'll clearly explain how the system works.

Ultimately customers will not be forced to use the system and will be
able to keep their Internet experience just as it is now should they
wish.

For more information please see the following link:
http://www.virginmedia.com/customers/webwise.php
Click to expand...
 
Are Phorm reading this thread?
Phorm has agreed to allow an independent software expert to inspect its source code as it continues to battle the firestorm provoked by agreements with BT, Virgin Media and Carphone Warehouse to let it build profiles of their broadband customers' web browsing.
Click to expand...
Register story
:hmm:
:D
 
I've tried to sign that Downing street petition twice now but I'm not getting the confirmation email for it. Phorm can still Phuck off.
 
I got following from BT (not a customer of theirs but complained anyway) for what its worth

"Thank you for your e-mail regarding your details. I am sorry if you are receiving a number of unwanted emails.

In response to your email, I can confirm that BT do not sell their customers details to any other company. However, if your details such as telephone number is available via the phone book or online, this can be obtained from these companies.

Therefore, I would advise you to contact your current telephone provider in order to get your details changed to ex-directory.

Thank you for contacting BT."
 
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