That the perception among one ethnic group that another gets priority is not confined to whites. It is not a "white" problem.
Immigration and political correctness/"preferential treatment"
- Thread starter frogwoman
- Start date
That the perception among one ethnic group that another gets priority is not confined to whites. It is not a "white" problem.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
that's not something people are unaware of. This isn't a thread for Oppressed White Maleism
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Straight facts are essential.
This is a good resource from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. Although its focus is Scotland there's a lot of UK stuff.
Myths & Facts - Council taxpayers’ money is not used to house asylum seekers therefore local people are not being disadvantaged. Asylum seekers are provided with housing (usually a flat) with basic furnishing while their claim for asylum is decided. After they are granted refugee status they enter the homeless system on the same terms any other person in Scotland. We are meeting our obligations under international law to treat asylum seekers fairly and decently.
It is unlawful for a local authority to let a house to an asylum seeker. Those who are not in a detention centre are housed in temporary accommodation provided by the Home Office, itself procured from private or public landlords. In Glasgow, for example, such people are housed in flats which the social landlord intends to demolish in due course.
Refugees - people who have been granted leave to live and work in the UK - are not given preferential treatment to social housing, but provided with it on the same terms as other tenants.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Bingo, that the batle for resources that this shit plays out is not a race problem, it's a social problem.
oh, thanks
I've heard Afrocaribbean Britons ascertain that their parents or grandparents came over to the UK and had to work long hours for peanuts, and the immigrants of today just come over and get benefits.
It is, of course, nonsense.
As I've said on some other threads, I think a really important thing is to demonstrate to people the fact that getting benefits in Britain is actually not that easy.
It is, of course, nonsense.
As I've said on some other threads, I think a really important thing is to demonstrate to people the fact that getting benefits in Britain is actually not that easy.
It has to be linked with where the problem/conflict arises from, not just where it doesn't.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Refugees don't get housed by the council afaik.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Whilst asylum seekers aren't entitled to council housing, refugees are, though they're not given any preferential treatment - that's a myth.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
tbh, I'm not sure of the difference between a refugee and asylum seeker.
Presumably a refugee has been granted asylum while an asylum seeker is waiting on a decision?
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
tbh, I'm not sure of the difference between a refugee and asylum seeker.
Got it in one
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
tbh, I'm not sure of the difference between a refugee and asylum seeker.
In order to qualify as a refugee, you would need to convince the authorities that you meet the definition of 'refugee' set out in the UN Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees. Under that definition, you have to demonstrate that you are a person who has a "well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion" in your country of nationality or your former country of residence.
An asylum seeker is a person who has applied for refugee status but whose status has not yet been determined. A person who is waiting for such a decision has a temporary right to live in the country and to be treated fairly and decently.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Asylum seekers aren't legally entitled to social housing. The places they get are indeed "seedy BnBs", or occasionally they're housed in decommissioned social housing stock (i.e. stuff that's in such poor condition it's been deemed uneconomic to repair).
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
That's a fairly grey area, though, because of issues with "the white list", and what is an "asylum seeker" anyway but someone seeking refuge from tyranny?
There's tensions in the North-East too. "East Europeans touching up our girlfriends..." that type of thing.
I've never encountered anything that serious in newcastle
of course there is that sort of racism which seems to occur just because of people looking and dressing differently etc but there isn't any big social tension like you hear about in parts of yorkshire and the midlands
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
i know i know, but the thing is that according to her, it was actually her dad, so she had first hand experience of it ... i have no idea and suspect that i might not be hearing the whole story tho ...
I've never had any experience of a pc sacking.
Edit: Which doesn't mean to say that there aren't any, of course
But these sorts of stories have been going round for years and years, and I've never heard of a real one.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
For the past few years Ive been involved in community cohesion work in years and prior top that housing and refugee work - so this is somewhat my specialised subject.
'Asylum Seekers' are people who are making a claim for refugee statues whilst living in this country. They are not work and are supported by the home office via the NASS system.
Under this they get a living allowance which is EVEN LESS then what is given to people on income support. Under the NASS system they almost always housed in the cheapest, most run down accommodation - often having to share bedrooms and endure shit conditions via landlords like the notorious Angel Group.
However the widely held perception that refugees 'jump the queue' for housing does have a sort of truth to it.
If an Asylum Seeker receives a positive decision - i.e. the home office accepts that they came to this country in order to flee persecution - they are then given 14 days to vacate their NASS accommodation. They are advised to report to their local housing office and register as homeless.
If they are a family with children they would then be granted priority status - the same as any other homeless family. But because of the system virtually every refugee family getting a positive decision gets 'priority status'.
Now to the residents of social housing estates, especially those that may have been waiting for re-housing for years, that will look like favouritism - especially when combined with the all distortion and myths around asylum peddled by the far right and large sections of the media.
The issue is a chronic shortage of social housing.
A similar pattern can be seen in other services - especially health and education - in the poorest parts of the country - an already under funded service is put under greater strain by people from refugee backgrounds moving into the area.
The net effect is to put communities in competition with each other for finite resources - a situation which gives the racists and/or fascists a field day.
The situation is further exacerbated by the utter failure of local or national government to do any work with the local communities expected to assimilate large scale demographic changes which have a direct impact on their lives.
Now some of this impact is positive - or could be made to be a positive if dealt with properly - the new arrivals are often young, educated, highly skilled and motivated. A lot of the work Im involved with tries to utilise these skills for the good of all the community.
With regards to 'anit-white racism' or 'non-white vs non white racism'. Of course it happens -why shouldn't it? e.g. in Harehills in Leeds there is a large south asian community. Over recent years there has been an influx of large numbers of polish people into the area (because new immigrants always start off in the areas with the cheapest rent). This has led to a significant degree of hostility from the South Asian community towards the poles - 'they come over here taking our homes' 'why don’t they go back to their own country etc'. Deeply ironic and depressing. There have also been serious tensions between Anglo-Pakistani and Kurdish community - usually around 'them' harassing 'our women'. This has led to violent confrontations - particularly in Dewsbury.
However the worst and most common incidents of violent racism is from white working class communities directed against non-white people moving into majority white social housing estates ; many areas up and down the country have seen witnessed sustained campaigns of racist violence against newcomers - fire bombings, physical attacks, property damage, death threats, violent mobs besieging houses. Now the people carrying out these attacks are a minority, but the rest of the community creates a culture of permissiveness that allows those responsible to carry out these actions with near impunity.
However if there is a serous effort to work with these communities and take their issues seriously it can make a real difference. The work Im involved with is essentially about getting different communities to make common cause with each other for mutual benefit. Unfortunately such an obvious approach is pretty much ignored by local and national government (or maybe they dont want different working class communities coming together?) and it is left a small number of organisations in the Community Voluntary sector to do it.
On a more positive note, there are plenty of examples across Leeds (and other cities) of a wide degree of mutual acceptance, cultural exchange and joint working between different communities.
We are not doomed to a 'race war' or being segregated into our own embittered ghettos, but it needs people to actively prevent this. i.e. if you involved with a youth centre, do some exchange work with another youth centre with kids from a different backgrounds - its not difficult and its easy to find plenty of common ground especially with young people. If your involved with a residents o r community group, actively engage with people from other cultures/backgrounds - knock on their door and talk to them.
Funnily enough, people from other countries, refugees, foreigners etc fall into three camps - some are arseholes, some are diamonds and most are somewhere in-between. A bit like everyone else really. .
'Asylum Seekers' are people who are making a claim for refugee statues whilst living in this country. They are not work and are supported by the home office via the NASS system.
Under this they get a living allowance which is EVEN LESS then what is given to people on income support. Under the NASS system they almost always housed in the cheapest, most run down accommodation - often having to share bedrooms and endure shit conditions via landlords like the notorious Angel Group.
However the widely held perception that refugees 'jump the queue' for housing does have a sort of truth to it.
If an Asylum Seeker receives a positive decision - i.e. the home office accepts that they came to this country in order to flee persecution - they are then given 14 days to vacate their NASS accommodation. They are advised to report to their local housing office and register as homeless.
If they are a family with children they would then be granted priority status - the same as any other homeless family. But because of the system virtually every refugee family getting a positive decision gets 'priority status'.
Now to the residents of social housing estates, especially those that may have been waiting for re-housing for years, that will look like favouritism - especially when combined with the all distortion and myths around asylum peddled by the far right and large sections of the media.
The issue is a chronic shortage of social housing.
A similar pattern can be seen in other services - especially health and education - in the poorest parts of the country - an already under funded service is put under greater strain by people from refugee backgrounds moving into the area.
The net effect is to put communities in competition with each other for finite resources - a situation which gives the racists and/or fascists a field day.
The situation is further exacerbated by the utter failure of local or national government to do any work with the local communities expected to assimilate large scale demographic changes which have a direct impact on their lives.
Now some of this impact is positive - or could be made to be a positive if dealt with properly - the new arrivals are often young, educated, highly skilled and motivated. A lot of the work Im involved with tries to utilise these skills for the good of all the community.
With regards to 'anit-white racism' or 'non-white vs non white racism'. Of course it happens -why shouldn't it? e.g. in Harehills in Leeds there is a large south asian community. Over recent years there has been an influx of large numbers of polish people into the area (because new immigrants always start off in the areas with the cheapest rent). This has led to a significant degree of hostility from the South Asian community towards the poles - 'they come over here taking our homes' 'why don’t they go back to their own country etc'. Deeply ironic and depressing. There have also been serious tensions between Anglo-Pakistani and Kurdish community - usually around 'them' harassing 'our women'. This has led to violent confrontations - particularly in Dewsbury.
However the worst and most common incidents of violent racism is from white working class communities directed against non-white people moving into majority white social housing estates ; many areas up and down the country have seen witnessed sustained campaigns of racist violence against newcomers - fire bombings, physical attacks, property damage, death threats, violent mobs besieging houses. Now the people carrying out these attacks are a minority, but the rest of the community creates a culture of permissiveness that allows those responsible to carry out these actions with near impunity.
However if there is a serous effort to work with these communities and take their issues seriously it can make a real difference. The work Im involved with is essentially about getting different communities to make common cause with each other for mutual benefit. Unfortunately such an obvious approach is pretty much ignored by local and national government (or maybe they dont want different working class communities coming together?) and it is left a small number of organisations in the Community Voluntary sector to do it.
On a more positive note, there are plenty of examples across Leeds (and other cities) of a wide degree of mutual acceptance, cultural exchange and joint working between different communities.
We are not doomed to a 'race war' or being segregated into our own embittered ghettos, but it needs people to actively prevent this. i.e. if you involved with a youth centre, do some exchange work with another youth centre with kids from a different backgrounds - its not difficult and its easy to find plenty of common ground especially with young people. If your involved with a residents o r community group, actively engage with people from other cultures/backgrounds - knock on their door and talk to them.
Funnily enough, people from other countries, refugees, foreigners etc fall into three camps - some are arseholes, some are diamonds and most are somewhere in-between. A bit like everyone else really. .
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Rumours and shit stirrers ( like you) exacebating pre-existing tensions between south asian and caribbean communities.
And also a (thankfully) rare occurence. Mostly people get along with each other - its in our intersts too. Sometimes it goes tits up. They'res nothing inevitiable about inter-comuntiy violence and - as my post above points about - steps can be taken to ensure it doesn't happen (not that you'd be interested).
The spark was rumour but why did that rumour gain traction, why was it readily believed and acted upon by so many people? Are you suggesting a concerted campaign of rumour by bad sorts (like me apparently), if so what was their motivation?
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Like I said - pre-existing tensions and unsubstantiated rumours were explioted by shit stirrers. Bit like yugoslavia but on a smaller scale. Depressing but nothing inevtiable about it.
What do you think? Do you think this was a 'race war'? Do you think thats where we're heading? If so - why?
I have no idea what a race war looks like, if Yugoslavia is it then no, we aren't heading there. If Birmingham in 2005 is what it looks like then yes, we're already there just not constantly, more a cold race war.
What are these pre-existing tensions, where do they come from? How did race become the issue?
@K/T,
In my home city, there has been recently a number of tensions, including demonstrations outside of a school by abig number of parents who accuse others of racism, much of it is not reported by the media, is that
ealthy?
oh, and Freddy B is not far right afaik, why shoulds he 'shitstir'
In my home city, there has been recently a number of tensions, including demonstrations outside of a school by abig number of parents who accuse others of racism, much of it is not reported by the media, is that
ealthy?
oh, and Freddy B is not far right afaik, why shoulds he 'shitstir'
A lot of Black and Asian people are really annoyed that the UK has let so many people in from countries that were not part of the empire.
They are also annoyed when they see White South Africans and Australians getting good jobs.
Most Black and Asian people want too see much stricter controls on immigration.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Two different communities and a break down of trust between them. As I understoood it, The South Asian community ran/runs many of the local businesses and shops and this was resented by the afro-caribean communtiy.
Im not an expert on that particular incident - why are you so interested?
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Its called pulling the ladder up.
The long established polish community in the UK have not been exacrly welcoming towards the influx of polish migrant workers becasue they fear it might make things harder for them.
I don't see how the fact that such attitudes are shared by some people in other groups make the case for the immigration shroud wavers.
The problem again is the Government has seen immigration as a means to helping capitalism and big business by importing 'cheap labour' instead of raising wage levels to fill the gaps in certain sectors. Also the economic benefits have rarely trickled down as promised to the existing working class communities, regardless of colour, causing suspicions, tensions and divisions.
Add in the gross lack of social amenities in these communities and now a recession putting further squeeze on the people who can afford it least, an anti-immigrant backlash or resentment is sadly but hardly surprising.
or maybe its just a bunch of bored young men having a ruck and clustering around their race/culture as opposed to which football they support, village they come from or the kind of music they listen to
really theres nothing to see and im still unsure what point your trying to make
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